Suggestions for chronometer
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  1. #1
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    Suggestions for chronometer

    I am looking for suggestions for a chronometer with the following features, not necessarily in order of importance:

    1. No tachymeter
    2. 12 or 24 hour register
    3. No hour numbers - just markers
    4. Day of week
    5. Automatic or solar

    My old Heuer Carrera provides all of these except day of week. I find too many never used features and interface clutter unacceptable.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Moderator Public Forum GlennO's Avatar
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    Re: Suggestions for chronometer

    Just to clarify, did you mean chronometer or chronograph? You might also mention a budget and some style and size preferences.

  3. #3
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    Re: Suggestions for chronometer

    Yeah I don't think there are any solar chronometers. There are solar chronographs, though.

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  5. #4
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    Re: Suggestions for chronometer

    Throwing the day-of-week requirement in there is somewhat limiting, depending on your price point. The Valjoux 7750 movement has the day-of-week complication, but most watches that feature that movement (and there are a lot of them) are moderately priced and thus laden with appearance features such as tachymeters. I would search on watches that use that movement first. I can't find anything in the Tag-Heuer line that doesn't have a tachymeter (or other elements that make the dial very busy). And none of them have day-of-week.

    The Zenith Captain Chronograph ticks all your marks, except for the day-of-week:



    I can't think of other brands that don't use the 7750 that provide day-of-week, except as part of a calendar complication. But it seems that a calendar complication nearly always precludes a 12-hour totalizer. This is a Zenith Captain Winsor, which fulfills all your requirements except for the 12-hour totalizer:



    Both the Zeniths are chronometers in addition to being chronographs, heh.

    Rick "finding simple dials and 12-hour chronographs a rare combination" Denney
    Zenith: Captain Chronograph 03.2110.400*; Cartier: Santos 100 XL Concord: Mariner, C1 Big-Date, C1 v.2 Chronograph; Ebel: Chronosport 1134901, Tekton 9137L83*, Type E 9137C41* (*=COSC)
    Ebel: 1911 BTR 9137L73* and 9139L71*, 1911 1120L41*, 1911 Senior 9080241, Brasilias 9120M41 (2), Aquatica 500 9120K61, Classic Hexagon GMT 9301F61, Classic 100 LE 9120R41; Baume & Mercier: Capeland World-Timer
    Heuer: Carrera 1964 Re-Edition CS3110; Maurice Lacroix: Masterpiece MP6439; "Seagull": 1963 Reissue cal. ST19; Seiko: Black Monster SRP307; Poljot: Sturmanskie cal. 3133; Tissot: T-Touch Lew and Huey: Acciona
    Vintage: JLC: ref. 2953, ca. 1946; Longines: Flagship cal 285; Zodiac: SST cal. 86, Aerospace GMT cal. 72; Favre-Leuba: cal. 253; Tianjin: Dong Feng cal. ST5; Elgin: Gr. 152 (1898), Gr. 384 (1919); Ebel: ca. 1962 ref. 9214955
    WUS: ST5 Project Watches (Black and Blue), F72.2014.DG3804 (Gray and Cream); Swatch: Sistem 51 Blue; TNT: Rattrapante cal. Rochat 7750+RAT-1

  6. #5
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    Re: Suggestions for chronometer

    I did find a Chronoswiss Chronograph Day-Date CH7543K that would appear to use a Valjoux 7750 and still provide the simplicity you require. But it will be costly, at least if bought new. It seems to check all your boxes.



    Rick "who was looking for something else and saw it" Denney
    Last edited by Rdenney; October 24th, 2013 at 05:02.
    Zenith: Captain Chronograph 03.2110.400*; Cartier: Santos 100 XL Concord: Mariner, C1 Big-Date, C1 v.2 Chronograph; Ebel: Chronosport 1134901, Tekton 9137L83*, Type E 9137C41* (*=COSC)
    Ebel: 1911 BTR 9137L73* and 9139L71*, 1911 1120L41*, 1911 Senior 9080241, Brasilias 9120M41 (2), Aquatica 500 9120K61, Classic Hexagon GMT 9301F61, Classic 100 LE 9120R41; Baume & Mercier: Capeland World-Timer
    Heuer: Carrera 1964 Re-Edition CS3110; Maurice Lacroix: Masterpiece MP6439; "Seagull": 1963 Reissue cal. ST19; Seiko: Black Monster SRP307; Poljot: Sturmanskie cal. 3133; Tissot: T-Touch Lew and Huey: Acciona
    Vintage: JLC: ref. 2953, ca. 1946; Longines: Flagship cal 285; Zodiac: SST cal. 86, Aerospace GMT cal. 72; Favre-Leuba: cal. 253; Tianjin: Dong Feng cal. ST5; Elgin: Gr. 152 (1898), Gr. 384 (1919); Ebel: ca. 1962 ref. 9214955
    WUS: ST5 Project Watches (Black and Blue), F72.2014.DG3804 (Gray and Cream); Swatch: Sistem 51 Blue; TNT: Rattrapante cal. Rochat 7750+RAT-1

  7. #6
    Member mpalmer's Avatar
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    Re: Suggestions for chronometer

    Welcome to forum!
    "The stuff that dreams are made of…" - RGM ‘801 EE Motor Barrel’

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    Re: Suggestions for chronometer

    Thanks Rdenney! The Chronoswiss is indeed absolutely beautiful IMHO. But I haven't found a price in US dollars or in Euros, or a US dealer.

    I said in my description I was looking for a chronometer like this, but a chronograph would be okay too.

    My Casio Edifice provides most of the requirements and the main things I don't like about it are the presence of a prominent tachymeter and the lack of a 12 hour totalizer. It's not rated as a chronometer but I believe it more than meets chronometer accuracy requirements. Unfortunately (for others) it appears that Casio has recently discontinued the specific model I have.

    The old Heuer Carrera I have does have a tachymeter, although it is extremely small so it doesn't clutter the face very much. I think newer (Tag) Heuers are much more cluttered. It does have a 12 hour totalizer. No day of week though.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rdenney View Post
    I did find a Chronoswiss Chronograph Day-Date CH7543K that would appear to use a Valjoux 7750 and still provide the simplicity you require. But it will be costly, at least if bought new. It seems to check all your boxes.



    Rick "who was looking for something else and saw it" Denney

  9. #8
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    Re: Suggestions for chronometer

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker26 View Post
    Thanks Rdenney! The Chronoswiss is indeed absolutely beautiful IMHO. But I haven't found a price in US dollars or in Euros, or a US dealer.

    I said in my description I was looking for a chronometer like this, but a chronograph would be okay too.

    My Casio Edifice provides most of the requirements and the main things I don't like about it are the presence of a prominent tachymeter and the lack of a 12 hour totalizer. It's not rated as a chronometer but I believe it more than meets chronometer accuracy requirements. Unfortunately (for others) it appears that Casio has recently discontinued the specific model I have.

    The old Heuer Carrera I have does have a tachymeter, although it is extremely small so it doesn't clutter the face very much. I think newer (Tag) Heuers are much more cluttered. It does have a 12 hour totalizer. No day of week though.
    A chronometer is a watch that has met the COSC requirements and been certified by them. While this does guarantee a certain level of accuracy, it does not mean that there aren't more accurate watches that aren't chronometers. The Japanese are banned from COSC because the Swiss saw them as a threat when they trounced them in the 1967 accuracy competition. Today, Grand Seiko uses their own certification for their mechanical watches, which is more stringent than the Swiss standard.

    You also have to keep in mind that COSC has a rating system for both quartz and mechanical watches. The mechanical accuracy requirement is +6/-4 seconds per day, whereas the quartz one translates to about +/-25 seconds a year IIRC. So a normal quartz watch is more accurate than a COSC mechanical, but it would not qualify as a chronometer even if it satisfied the country of origin requirements.

  10. #9
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    Re: Suggestions for chronometer

    Tsujigiri

    Yes, I was aware of the relative qualitative accuracy and differences between mechanical chronometers and chronographs, and quartz watches, although not the specific quantitative differences you cite - thanks.

    For an everyday watch I don't care whether or not it meets a certain official rating as one might deduce from the watches I have. The functional and aesthetic interface design, and the watch's absolute accuracy, as well as absence of batteries are what matter most to me. So until recently my Heuer automatic was my everyday watch because of the functionality and clean interface despite it's not being as accurate as a quartz watch because I was unable to find a quartz watch that I liked aesthetically and, besides, most required batteries. However, the availability of solar quartz watches has removed the battery issue and so I switched to the Edifice as it also is pretty nice aesthetically if not the greatest.


  11. #10
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    Re: Suggestions for chronometer

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker26 View Post
    Thanks Rdenney! The Chronoswiss is indeed absolutely beautiful IMHO. But I haven't found a price in US dollars or in Euros, or a US dealer.

    I said in my description I was looking for a chronometer like this, but a chronograph would be okay too.

    My Casio Edifice provides most of the requirements and the main things I don't like about it are the presence of a prominent tachymeter and the lack of a 12 hour totalizer. It's not rated as a chronometer but I believe it more than meets chronometer accuracy requirements. Unfortunately (for others) it appears that Casio has recently discontinued the specific model I have.

    The old Heuer Carrera I have does have a tachymeter, although it is extremely small so it doesn't clutter the face very much. I think newer (Tag) Heuers are much more cluttered. It does have a 12 hour totalizer. No day of week though.
    Here's an ad on Chrono24 for a new Chronoswiss like the one I showed (I have no knowledge of the seller, but this will give you an idea of price):

    Chronoswiss Grand Chronograph Kairos -NEU- CH for $.5,487 for sale from a Trusted Seller on Chrono24

    These are priced similarly to the Zenith models.

    One of the problems with the better, but lesser-known European brands is that they are hard to buy in the United States.

    Any quartz watch will surpass Swiss chronometer standards for mechanical watches by a large margin. To expand a bit on previous comments, it wasn't so much that the Swiss were cutting off the non-Swiss. It was that each country was expected to establish its own chronometer certification agency. Germany has the Glashutte Observatory (Glashtte Uhren von Wempe - Uhren nach deutscher DIN Norm). Back when there were French and English chronometer manufactures, there were observatories at Besançon and Kew. All of these that currently exist are overseen by their government standards organizations. The Japanese work a bit differently when it comes to standards testing, but they certainly have their own certification capability. There was a time when the Swiss, Germans, and French shared the industry across the northern border of Switzerland even more than they do now, but still they each had their own observatories. In olden days, the observatories were critically important because chronometers were used for marine navigation. The time being off by even a few seconds will mean miles of error when applied to solar and stellar navigation. The railroad industry had its own certification process that was even more stringent--trains are faster and more likely to run into each other if timing is off. All of these have been superseded by events and newer technologies, but still exist as a consumer service for those wanting to buy watches that have been independently tested and certified for good accuracy.

    The reason people confused your original post is that a three-hand watch can be a chronometer, though the requirement for a 12-hour totalizer or the avoidance of a tachymeter scale would make no sense. All your requirements were related to a chronograph (i.e., including a stopwatch function), so people naturally assumed (and, frankly, still assume) that "chronograph" was what you meant. It's a common mistake; no need to be embarassed by it.

    If you open the door to tachymeter scales that are diminutive, then there are many more possibilities. Again, search on watches that have a Valjoux/ETA 7750, which was often implemented with a day-date complication, realizing that the 7750 was used on mid-priced watches and therefore favored sporty looks favored by younger buyers. One possibility is an Ebel 1911 Discovery, which uses a 7750 and has a fairly typical tachymeter scale.

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    Their regular (and more expensive) 1911 BTR Chronograph's tachymeter scale was much more discrete, though the watch is still probably too sporty for your intentions. That watch used their in-house Caliber 137, which did not have a day-of-week function:



    Both are out of production, but might be had for a fraction of their retail price if available at a Movado Company Store (which provides full AD benefits), of which there are a couple of dozen in premium outlet malls in the U.S. I've only seen one Discovery at my local MCS in the last year, but I've seen a number of 1911 and 1911 BTR chronographs. Both are COSC-certified.

    But there are many, many other chronographs with perhaps acceptably discrete tachymeter scales that used the 7750, and I'm certainly not aware of more than a fraction of them. But, as I said before, the 7750 was aimed at more moderate pricing and was thus usually implemented in sporty watches.

    If quartz timing is acceptable, then look into Seiko models, too. They have some kinetic watches that use batteries but that recharge them with arm motion, in addition to solar models. They have thousands of models, so perhaps there's something in there that fulfills your requirements. I know they have less expensive movements that provide day and date, but I'm not sure about their chronographs.

    Rick "needing more precise requirements if really broadening the search to all chronometers" Denney
    Last edited by Rdenney; October 24th, 2013 at 15:46.
    ken_sturrock likes this.
    Zenith: Captain Chronograph 03.2110.400*; Cartier: Santos 100 XL Concord: Mariner, C1 Big-Date, C1 v.2 Chronograph; Ebel: Chronosport 1134901, Tekton 9137L83*, Type E 9137C41* (*=COSC)
    Ebel: 1911 BTR 9137L73* and 9139L71*, 1911 1120L41*, 1911 Senior 9080241, Brasilias 9120M41 (2), Aquatica 500 9120K61, Classic Hexagon GMT 9301F61, Classic 100 LE 9120R41; Baume & Mercier: Capeland World-Timer
    Heuer: Carrera 1964 Re-Edition CS3110; Maurice Lacroix: Masterpiece MP6439; "Seagull": 1963 Reissue cal. ST19; Seiko: Black Monster SRP307; Poljot: Sturmanskie cal. 3133; Tissot: T-Touch Lew and Huey: Acciona
    Vintage: JLC: ref. 2953, ca. 1946; Longines: Flagship cal 285; Zodiac: SST cal. 86, Aerospace GMT cal. 72; Favre-Leuba: cal. 253; Tianjin: Dong Feng cal. ST5; Elgin: Gr. 152 (1898), Gr. 384 (1919); Ebel: ca. 1962 ref. 9214955
    WUS: ST5 Project Watches (Black and Blue), F72.2014.DG3804 (Gray and Cream); Swatch: Sistem 51 Blue; TNT: Rattrapante cal. Rochat 7750+RAT-1

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