Ulysse Nardin Vintage (Real or Fake) Help needed
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  1. #1
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    Ulysse Nardin Vintage (Real or Fake) Help needed

    Hello everybody,

    I originally posted this thread in a similar thread but I was told to open a new thread. So I am posting this here again. I apologise in advance if I caused any inconvenience.

    I am new to this forum and very new to vintage watches. Having a collection of luxury watches (all purchased new) I thought to give a go to vintage watches and as a first attempt, I bought a UN vintage off an auction website in Switzerland (the country of most luxury watches). The attached pictures are this latest purchase. But after reading several sites and forums, I am now worried if my first investment was a bit in rush and I bought myself a fake UN watch.


    The previous owner claimed the watch to be of 1950s but the UN website is extremely poor in presenting old or discontinued models (I am very surprised they don't have a museum style online catalogue to show their glorious days!) So not much information on the net. These are my concerns:

    1- The logo on the dial is UN current logo. When did UN start using this logo? Does the logo goes back as far as 50s?
    2- The date on 3 o'clock has a Rolex type magnifier which I have not seen anywhere (perhaps a new glass)?
    3- The arabic dials are only on 6 and 12 and other models I could find are either without number or numbers are on 3, 6, 9 and 12 (with exception of 3 being replaced with the date in some models)
    4- The back is stainless steel without UN marking but inside there is its mark in the middle. I think since the case (presumably) is gold plated it is normal for a watch to have stainless steel back but I need your expert view on this too.
    5- The movement seems to be old with even some tarnish but again the same logo without any reference number or serial number can be seen.

    Now in your expert opinion, is this a fake vintage, What caliber is it and if real how old is it?

    Thanks for your inputs. It is highly appreciated.

    kind regards
    Attached Images Attached Images










  2. #2
    Member Don Nghia's Avatar
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    Re: Ulysse Nardin Vintage (Real or Fake) Help needed

    Quote Originally Posted by francofar View Post
    Hello everybody,

    I originally posted this thread in a similar thread but I was told to open a new thread. So I am posting this here again. I apologise in advance if I caused any inconvenience.

    I am new to this forum and very new to vintage watches. Having a collection of luxury watches (all purchased new) I thought to give a go to vintage watches and as a first attempt, I bought a UN vintage off an auction website in Switzerland (the country of most luxury watches). The attached pictures are this latest purchase. But after reading several sites and forums, I am now worried if my first investment was a bit in rush and I bought myself a fake UN watch.


    The previous owner claimed the watch to be of 1950s but the UN website is extremely poor in presenting old or discontinued models (I am very surprised they don't have a museum style online catalogue to show their glorious days!) So not much information on the net. These are my concerns:

    1- The logo on the dial is UN current logo. When did UN start using this logo? Does the logo goes back as far as 50s?
    2- The date on 3 o'clock has a Rolex type magnifier which I have not seen anywhere (perhaps a new glass)?
    3- The arabic dials are only on 6 and 12 and other models I could find are either without number or numbers are on 3, 6, 9 and 12 (with exception of 3 being replaced with the date in some models)
    4- The back is stainless steel without UN marking but inside there is its mark in the middle. I think since the case (presumably) is gold plated it is normal for a watch to have stainless steel back but I need your expert view on this too.
    5- The movement seems to be old with even some tarnish but again the same logo without any reference number or serial number can be seen.

    Now in your expert opinion, is this a fake vintage, What caliber is it and if real how old is it?

    Thanks for your inputs. It is highly appreciated.

    kind regards
    I have a little concerned about the Font and the way the ink stay on the dial
    Although usually Sun-Burst Dial is hard to Re-Dial !

  3. #3
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    Re: Ulysse Nardin Vintage (Real or Fake) Help needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Nghia View Post
    I have a little concerned about the Font and the way the ink stay on the dial
    Although usually Sun-Burst Dial is hard to Re-Dial !

    Thanks for the reply and for the observations. The font seems to be similar to the old logo but I don't know if the logo goes back to as far as 50s. How about the screw?It has no UN sign. What is your view on it?

    Cheers

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    Re: Ulysse Nardin Vintage (Real or Fake) Help needed

    Sorry I meant the crown!

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    Re: Ulysse Nardin Vintage (Real or Fake) Help needed

    In addition to the previous posting, I now had a better look at the movement and there is a small number on the actual movement. My reading is AS 56 or something similar. Does this have any meaning?

    The fact the movement has no other number is alarming?

    One other thing is the crown does not have two stage pull (I don't know the technical name) This means to change the date I have to move the time for 24 hours before it changes the date. Is this normal for a over 60 years old automatic watch?

    The second hand is not as smooth as I thought to be for a 25 jewels movement.


    Name:  IMG_0394.JPG
Views: 481
Size:  1.12 MB

    I hope the attachment is visible here.

    Kind regards

  7. #6
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    Re: Ulysse Nardin Vintage (Real or Fake) Help needed

    I'm not an expert, but am pretty sure that is fake.

  8. #7
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    Re: Ulysse Nardin Vintage (Real or Fake) Help needed

    Quote Originally Posted by francofar View Post
    In addition to the previous posting, I now had a better look at the movement and there is a small number on the actual movement. My reading is AS 56 or something similar. Does this have any meaning?

    The fact the movement has no other number is alarming?

    One other thing is the crown does not have two stage pull (I don't know the technical name) This means to change the date I have to move the time for 24 hours before it changes the date. Is this normal for a over 60 years old automatic watch?

    The second hand is not as smooth as I thought to be for a 25 jewels movement.


    Name:  IMG_0394.JPG
Views: 481
Size:  1.12 MB

    I hope the attachment is visible here.

    Kind regards
    Now I think the calibre is A Schild 1581 but still not sure if the watch is fake or not!

  9. #8
    Member dbostedo's Avatar
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    Re: Ulysse Nardin Vintage (Real or Fake) Help needed

    Quote Originally Posted by francofar View Post
    One other thing is the crown does not have two stage pull (I don't know the technical name) This means to change the date I have to move the time for 24 hours before it changes the date. Is this normal for a over 60 years old automatic watch?
    That's normal for old watches. I don't know if it's normal for UN, but I have an old Omega with the same lack of quick-set date. On some watches, you can move the hour hand back and forth between 9 and 3, with a sort-of quick set behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by francofar View Post
    The second hand is not as smooth as I thought to be for a 25 jewels movement.
    The number of jewels doesn't have anything to do with how smoothly the second hand moves. That's more determined by the beat rate of the watch (how many times the balance oscillates in an hour). A high beat rate produces a smoother movement of the second hand. The number of jewels are all the places that the synthetic rubies are used to reduce friction, but that's not what you're seeing show up in the movement of the second hand.
    francofar likes this.
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    Re: Ulysse Nardin Vintage (Real or Fake) Help needed

    Dear Dbostedo

    Thanks for the message and explanation. Wrongly I had the impression that higher number of jewels reduced the friction which results in higher oscillation of balance and consequently smoother second hand movement.

    I will check the move between 9 and 3 to see if it changes the date. In any event, lack of serial number on the watch shows the watch not being a genuine watch even though it has a A Schild 1581 automatic movement.

    Best regards

  11. #10
    Moderator Public Forum John MS's Avatar
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    Re: Ulysse Nardin Vintage (Real or Fake) Help needed

    At a minimum the dial was re-done. The printing does not look original and the radial brushing looks coarse and inconsistent. The date seems mis-aligned with the window so that may indicate the movement and dial was married to another case. Movement plates are two different colors with corrosion present. Looks like parts were assembled.
    Last edited by John MS; March 30th, 2016 at 22:04.

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