Want to modify the Auto ETA-2824 to Handwind

Thread: Want to modify the Auto ETA-2824 to Handwind

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  1. #1
    Member BRUCE's Avatar
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    Want to modify the Auto ETA-2824 to Handwind

    I want to look into how to make the ETA-2824 into a handwind movement. What are the steps that absolutely must be taken in order to maintain the workhorse durability of this fine movement? I have read that the 2824 is a 2801 with autowind added, and I have also been told by other equally reliable sources that an auto movement should not be handwound except slowly, and even then only enough to just get the movement started. This warning was said to apply to both uni-directional movements (7750), and bi-directionals (2836, 2824) although pictures I have seen were of damage to a 7750.

    So what is it? I'm sure there are plenty of highly skilled, hands on people out there who know what to do to convert a 2824 to a handwind. Is it possible, or not? :thanks

  2. #2
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    Re: Want to modify the Auto ETA-2824 to Handwind

    Well, you've been told wrong. You fully wind.

  3. #3
    Moderator Public Forum Eric L.'s Avatar
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    Re: Want to modify the Auto ETA-2824 to Handwind

    I am not sure I understand - you can wind a 2824 all you want -it has a clutch to prevent overwinding.
    Lots of dive watches.

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    Member lysanderxiii's Avatar
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    Re: Want to modify the Auto ETA-2824 to Handwind

    To make an ETA 2824-2 into a handwind movement, remove two screws and pop the autowind bridge off.

    Viola, a 2804-2 with an few extra cut-outs in the bridge plates, for all intents and purposes.

    The reason people say don't handwind autos is the two reverser wheels run backwards against each other during handwinding. Eventually, after enough handwinding, you might wear their bearings out.

  6. #5
    Member BRUCE's Avatar
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    Re: Want to modify the Auto ETA-2824 to Handwind

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric L. View Post
    I am not sure I understand - you can wind a 2824 all you want -it has a clutch to prevent overwinding.
    Thanks for the reply Eric. What I was trying to determine is if because of the gearing-down (for want of a more precise term) that is built into the autowind, is there damage inflicted on the click wheels (especially the bottom one) when hand winding. In the process of refining the problem statement here, I actually found my answer. I will copy here a post from a Canadian watch expert. He goes by the handle of Ziggyzumba. He is the clearest writer I have ever seen on the subject of watches, and absolutely know his stuff. So here is how Ziggy explains the issue of handwinding an auto movement (posted on RWG Jan 31,2008). The bottom line for my purposes (and the WUS LE) is that if the Rotor(auto-wind bridge) is removed, there is not an issue, if it is left on, there is an issue. Ziggy, if you happen to read this, thank you for the clear explanation.

    I dont' think there is anything to debate.

    Hand winding an automatic will eventually damage the click wheel(s).

    The rotor is geared down from the rotor to the mainspring, meaning many turns of the rotor are needed to turn the mainspring gear once around. Reverse the flow and what do you get...geared up of course...

    When you handwind the watch, this gearing down is now geared up, and 1/4 of a turn on the crown, makes the click wheels spin like crazy. They are not designed to withstand this speed or friction, they are designed to work with the slow rotor turns. The click wheels are two parts, the bottom half is connected to the mainspring gear, and the top half connects to the Rotor. If you remove the rotor the damage issue is gone, since the complete click wheels turn while handwinding and the wheels are locked together, it's when the rotor is attached that the click wheel bottom half freewheels and the clutches are getting spun around and get damaged.

    I see this type of damage all the time, if you handwind constantly, then eventually you will hear and feel the rotor spinning due to the click wheels failing...it's a well documented fact. Click wheels are anywhere from $30 and up...as long as they are available. This is why most Japanese automatics, do not have the capability for handwinding.

    There is nothing wrong with s-l-o-w-l-y handwinding an automatic a few turns to get it started when you first put it on, anything beyond this, and your damaging the watch.

    RG
    Last edited by BRUCE; April 25th, 2008 at 22:53.

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    Member BRUCE's Avatar
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    Re: Want to modify the Auto ETA-2824 to Handwind

    Quote Originally Posted by lysanderxiii View Post
    To make an ETA 2824-2 into a handwind movement, remove two screws and pop the autowind bridge off.

    Viola, a 2804-2 with an few extra cut-outs in the bridge plates, for all intents and purposes.

    The reason people say don't handwind autos is the two reverser wheels run backwards against each other during handwinding. Eventually, after enough handwinding, you might wear their bearings out.
    Thank you very much for your complete and acurate answer. I very much appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge. I was hoping the change was possible, and would result in a movement that would still be durable, and it certainly appears that it is. Thanks again.

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    Re: Want to modify the Auto ETA-2824 to Handwind

    Gads, I've been damaging my Lucien Piccard for 46 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by BRUCE View Post
    Thanks for the reply Eric. What I was trying to determine is if because of the gearing-down (for want of a more precise term) that is built into the autowind, is there damage inflicted on the click wheels (especially the bottom one) when hand winding. In the process of refining the problem statement here, I actually found my answer. I will copy here a post from a Canadian watch expert. He goes by the handle of Ziggyzumba. He is the clearest writer I have ever seen on the subject of watches, and absolutely know his stuff. So here is how Ziggy explains the issue of handwinding an auto movement (posted on RWG Jan 31,2008). The bottom line for my purposes (and the WUS LE) is that if the Rotor is removed, there is not an issue, if the Rotor is left on, there is an issue. Ziggy, if you happen to read this, thank you for the clear explanation.

    I dont' think there is anything to debate.

    Hand winding an automatic will eventually damage the click wheel(s).

    The rotor is geared down from the rotor to the mainspring, meaning many turns of the rotor are needed to turn the mainspring gear once around. Reverse the flow and what do you get...geared up of course...

    When you handwind the watch, this gearing down is now geared up, and 1/4 of a turn on the crown, makes the click wheels spin like crazy. They are not designed to withstand this speed or friction, they are designed to work with the slow rotor turns. The click wheels are two parts, the bottom half is connected to the mainspring gear, and the top half connects to the Rotor. If you remove the rotor the damage issue is gone, since the complete click wheels turn while handwinding and the wheels are locked together, it's when the rotor is attached that the click wheel bottom half freewheels and the clutches are getting spun around and get damaged.

    I see this type of damage all the time, if you handwind constantly, then eventually you will hear and feel the rotor spinning due to the click wheels failing...it's a well documented fact. Click wheels are anywhere from $30 and up...as long as they are available. This is why most Japanese automatics, do not have the capability for handwinding.

    There is nothing wrong with s-l-o-w-l-y handwinding an automatic a few turns to get it started when you first put it on, anything beyond this, and your damaging the watch.

    RG

  9. #8
    Member Eeeb's Avatar
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    Re: Want to modify the Auto ETA-2824 to Handwind

    Quote Originally Posted by Watchbreath View Post
    Gads, I've been damaging my Lucien Piccard for 46 years.
    You had better watch out... in another 50 or so years you might need to get it serviced!!
    "Forever is composed of nows." - Emily Dickinson

    "The watch has to be surrounded by a history.
    You need more than just a great design. You need to create an atmosphere around the product.
    Who is the company behind it? Why are they using this material?
    People need to be able to identify the watch with themselves. It's based on emotion." - Ralph Furter

    ...that's just my opinion and I've been wrong before and will be again and might be now!

  10. #9
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    Re: Want to modify the Auto ETA-2824 to Handwind

    It's due in 2011 or 12.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eeeb View Post
    You had better watch out... in another 50 or so years you might need to get it serviced!!

  11. #10
    Member Eeeb's Avatar
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    Re: Want to modify the Auto ETA-2824 to Handwind

    Quote Originally Posted by Watchbreath View Post
    It's due in 2011 or 12.
    I should have said "repaired"...
    "Forever is composed of nows." - Emily Dickinson

    "The watch has to be surrounded by a history.
    You need more than just a great design. You need to create an atmosphere around the product.
    Who is the company behind it? Why are they using this material?
    People need to be able to identify the watch with themselves. It's based on emotion." - Ralph Furter

    ...that's just my opinion and I've been wrong before and will be again and might be now!

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