Watch Speed as a Function of Orientation
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  1. #1
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    Watch Speed as a Function of Orientation

    I've read many accounts of watches running alternately fast or slow, by varying degrees, depending primarily on how they are stored - given that a watch on the wrist will average many varied positions. I'm wondering if a given common movement (Valjoux 7750 in my case, but I'd be interested in other examples as well) will show the same dependence on orientation in any and all watches that contain it, or if the dependence is more random.

    I next wonder if this will depend on the "grade" of the particular movement, since I've read that the higher grades are regulated in more and more positions, to tighter specifications. This seems to suggest that a low grade of a particular movement may exhibit strong positional dependence, if it is placed in an orientation in which it was not regulated, whereas the high grade may show little or none (and be more accuarate while it's at it, which I guess is what we would expect).

    I'm currently collecting data, and intend to eventually do the experiment, but I was wondering what peoples' knowlege and experience was. I hope to impact and improve accuracy with my nightly storage, and if the Valjoux 7750 is known to behave in a certain way, that information should make things much easier.

    Many thanks,

    Joe

  2. #2
    Member peakay's Avatar
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    Re: Watch Speed as a Function of Orientation

    I have a new watch with a basic ETA 2824-2 movement which is running about -1 to 1.5 sec / 24hrs, I tried dial up and and crown up with no improvement, but crown down it seems to be gaining about +0.5 to 1 sec overnight. This doesn't necessarily mean that crown down will work for the 7750.


  3. #3
    Member gaijin's Avatar
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    Re: Watch Speed as a Function of Orientation

    Good question.

    I have a couple of 7750 watches. Let me throw them on the watch timer and see if there is any commonality with positional rate variations.

    More later.
    "So?"
    -Andrew Breitbart 1969-2012

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    Re: Watch Speed as a Function of Orientation

    Oooh. The right tool for the job sounds nice. I'm taking a while to establish a baseline with storage face up, because it's still been less than a week since the time-change re-set, and I am getting incredible results right now: 0.9 seconds fast per day. I'm measuring twice a day, and I may be starting to see some differences in speed for the night storage. Never mind that Sinn, and some others, suggest that meaningful speed data ought not be obtained until after 8 weeks. After some time, don't know how long, I will be seeking a night storage position that makes it run slow. At the same time, I ought to try to find out what grade movement is in my watch.

  6. #5
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    Re: Watch Speed as a Function of Orientation

    You really can only make very broad assumptions in the vertical plane. Because the geometry between the crown position and: the balance neutral point, the balance spring terminals, the regultaor pins, pallet orientation etc, varies between calibers, each will likely have similar tendencies as to speeding or slowing when placed crown high, crown low, 12 high or 6 high.

    Dial up or dial down will not be similar, it has to do with how the horizontal orientation affects the rate. A broad flat pivot will run slower than a sharp pointy pivot, since manufacturing variations affect the pivot point shape, you won't find much correlation.

    Will it depend on "grade"? YES, better grades will show less rate change due to orientation. That's why they are "better" grades, how "good" a movements is based on how small the positional variation....
    familiaritas parit contemptum; raritate admiratione wins.- Lucius Apuleius
    est necessry, accurate ad secundo? - Lysander magna
    iustum est horologium - Obscurus Genius

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    Member gaijin's Avatar
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    Re: Watch Speed as a Function of Orientation

    Quote Originally Posted by gaijin View Post
    Good question.

    I have a couple of 7750 watches. Let me throw them on the watch timer and see if there is any commonality with positional rate variations.

    More later.
    OK. Here is the data from a limited sample ot two 7750 watches measured in 6 positions (seconds/day):

    Position Watch A Watch B

    Dial Up -003 -005
    Crown Down +003 +011
    Dial Down -002 -004
    Crown Up -002 +006
    Crown Right +003 +012
    Crown Left -003 -003

    So, what does it mean?

    The results are not consistant enough to support the hypothesis that a generalization can be made about positional variance for a given movement type.

    All I would be willing to say is that if you have a 7750, then you might try resting Dial Up if you want to lose, try resting crown down to gain time, try resting dial down to lose time, crown right to gain time or crown left to lose time.

    But bear in mind that the results of "gain" and "loss" could very well be better realized as "lose at a slower rate" and "gain at a slower rate."

    Ultimately, each watch needs to be measured.

    HTH
    SlowRunner likes this.
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    -Andrew Breitbart 1969-2012

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