What I've learned about Japanese vs. Swiss Movements
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  1. #1
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    What I've learned about Japanese vs. Swiss Movements

    (First, I don't know why the Seiko 7S26 is called a "workhorse" movement. I know what it means, but where's the evidence? We bandy that word about based on really nothing. No statistics on which movement lasts longest. I have my dad's Valjoux 7750 from 1977, never been serviced and runs like a champ (or workhorse). In other words, I would call individual samples of any movement workhorses but without some kind of statistical corroboration I'd hesitate to so venerate any particular brand of movement.)

    My impression of Japanese movements (Seiko, Miyota, Orient) vs. Swiss (ETA, Selitta, Valjoux) is that while both Japanese and Swiss movements can be quite accurate in day to day use, the Swiss movements are much more consistent in their day to day timings. In other words, my Orient Mako can be 2 seconds slow one day, 3 seconds fast the next. If a Swiss movement is 4 seconds fast or 10 seconds slow in a given day it will be consistently at those numbers day after day. I take that consistency as higher quality and thus I prefer Swiss movements. And it doesn't hurt they hand wind and hack.

    Curious about other takes or agreement on this.
    Last edited by Sean779; March 6th, 2010 at 10:53.

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    Re: What I've learned about Japanese vs. Swiss Movements

    If this is a japanese vs. swiss comparison the least you could do is compare 2 movements that are in the same league..the 7750 mov't alone costs at least 6 times what a 7s26 does so it is not really a fair comparison, same goes for the mov't inside the Mako, its like comparing a Chevrolet to a BMW

    Also when people use the term "workhouse" when describing the Seiko, what comes to mind for me anyways is the fact that Seiko makes some very affordable auto. mov't watches that you can bang around and not worry to much about, I don't think it really means that people think it is necessarily better than any other particular mov't.
    Last edited by mngambler; March 6th, 2010 at 12:09.

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    Re: What I've learned about Japanese vs. Swiss Movements

    I like the day/date future on ETA movements, both day/date discs flips at the same time and it's amazing to see that feature in action flawlessly year after year.
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    Re: What I've learned about Japanese vs. Swiss Movements

    Quote Originally Posted by mngambler View Post
    If this is a japanese vs. swiss comparison the least you could do is compare 2 movements that are in the same league..the 7750 mov't alone costs at least 6 times what a 7s26 does so it is not really a fair comparison, same goes for the mov't inside the Mako, its like comparing a Chevrolet to a BMW

    Also when people use the term "workhouse" when describing the Seiko, what comes to mind for me anyways is the fact that Seiko makes some very affordable auto. mov't watches that you can bang around and not worry to much about, I don't think it really means that people think it is necessarily better than any other particular mov't.
    You're right. I've only had experience with entry level movements from Miyota, Seiko, Orient. Perhaps more expensive Japanese movements have that timekeeping consistency I talked about.

    When people say "workhorse" they say it in terms of endurance but I believe you're correct that what they really mean is "you can bang it around and not worry too much about". Cheap trumps endurance.

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    Re: What I've learned about Japanese vs. Swiss Movements

    I find it highly ironic that you start off talking about how one has to look at individual samples to determine quality... and you end by generalizing the quality of swiss and japanese movements.
    ladyeclectic likes this.

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    Re: What I've learned about Japanese vs. Swiss Movements

    Lets compare apples with apples, don't compare entry level non-winding, non-hacking movements with movements with these features and that cost much more. How about comparing a 2824-2 with a 6R15.

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    Re: What I've learned about Japanese vs. Swiss Movements

    Quote Originally Posted by Lustre View Post
    I find it highly ironic that you start off talking about how one has to look at individual samples to determine quality... and you end by generalizing the quality of swiss and japanese movements.
    no, not generalizing the quality. I suggested one has to look at individual movements over time to determine durability. My experience in regard to consistency is based on my experience with many Swiss and Japanese movements over weeks, months, years of timekeeping. It speaks to timekeeping, not endurance.

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    Re: What I've learned about Japanese vs. Swiss Movements

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean779 View Post
    You're right. I've only had experience with entry level movements from Miyota, Seiko, Orient. Perhaps more expensive Japanese movements have that timekeeping consistency I talked about.

    When people say "workhorse" they say it in terms of endurance but I believe you're correct that what they really mean is "you can bang it around and not worry too much about". Cheap trumps endurance.
    a step up as far as Seiko is concerned would be the 6R15 23J which does hack, and is found in models like the Sumo which is a very popular model found on these forums. If accuracy is something that really interests you I suggest you check out this site http://www.seikospringdrive.com/ for some pretty amazing information regarding Seikos spring drive technology

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    Re: What I've learned about Japanese vs. Swiss Movements

    Quote Originally Posted by RON in PA View Post
    Lets compare apples with apples, don't compare entry level non-winding, non-hacking movements with movements with these features and that cost much more. How about comparing a 2824-2 with a 6R15.
    that's true--and I've already admitted that. I only have experience with Japanese entry level movements. However, the barely adjusted 2824 is ETA's entry level movement...and even there--although I admit it's more expensive than entry level Japanese movements--it still shows consistency + or - in its daily timekeeping, even if it's +25 sec./day.

    I'd be interested in knowing if the Seiko 6R15 has that consistency, esp. since I'm down for the Halios Bluering w/ that movement.

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    Re: What I've learned about Japanese vs. Swiss Movements

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean779 View Post
    no, not generalizing the quality. I suggested one has to look at individual movements over time to determine durability. My experience in regard to consistency is based on my experience with many Swiss and Japanese movements over weeks, months, years of timekeeping. It speaks to timekeeping, not endurance.
    The point was that you mentioned that a certain quality cannot be generalized to an entire family, but instead must be determined on an individual basis. However, you immediately do exactly the opposite regarding timekeeping.

    Nothing against you, of course, just that it seemed a bit strange to me how you could have overlooked that.

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