What price perfection?
Like Tree3Likes

Thread: What price perfection?

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 26
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Cape Town, South Africa
    Posts
    534

    What price perfection?

    I've been doing a lot of hunting online for a watch. My first mechanical watch as it happens, but certainly not the first subject I've exhaustively researched. Usually I end up finding the 'right' product (camera, computer etc.) which is a clear winner given the attributes I value. However in the case of watches I'm persistently confounded.

    I have means, so I can afford, for example, a Rolex, but I'm also not sold on spending that sort of money unless the value is really there. Suffice to say, the field is that wide and probably wider given enough value, but as I said above, I usually will find the diamond in the dirt. Several times I've run across a watch that seems to tick my boxes AND be a great value, only to find some flaw that spoils it: visibly poor workmanship, an off-center lume pip in the main product shot, or stories of dissatisfaction with the quality or customer service.

    It's getting quite annoying, as it seems for everything to really be done properly you have to hit the $7k mark or thereabouts. By that I mean no nakedly visible flaws, but allowing for loupe-level flaws and limits in finishing and materials of course. So, not perfection at all, just everything 'done right' with good customer service backing it up.

    At what sort of price level should I expect a flaw-free watch as defined above? When the vendor themselves post a main marketing image with a misaligned lume pip on a $1k watch, is that expected? Or when a revered German brand will take 5 months to service a watch in the same price range and more, is that what we should anticipate as good Customer Service?

    So, what price perfection? Do I just cut to the chase, get a Submariner 'beater' and start saving for the Lange?

  2. #2
    Moderator Public Forum John MS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    21,301

    Re: What price perfection?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robbi Laurenson View Post
    I've been doing a lot of hunting online for a watch. My first mechanical watch as it happens, but certainly not the first subject I've exhaustively researched. Usually I end up finding the 'right' product (camera, computer etc.) which is a clear winner given the attributes I value. However in the case of watches I'm persistently confounded.

    I have means, so I can afford, for example, a Rolex, but I'm also not sold on spending that sort of money unless the value is really there. Suffice to say, the field is that wide and probably wider given enough value, but as I said above, I usually will find the diamond in the dirt. Several times I've run across a watch that seems to tick my boxes AND be a great value, only to find some flaw that spoils it: visibly poor workmanship, an off-center lume pip in the main product shot, or stories of dissatisfaction with the quality or customer service.

    It's getting quite annoying, as it seems for everything to really be done properly you have to hit the $7k mark or thereabouts. By that I mean no nakedly visible flaws, but allowing for loupe-level flaws and limits in finishing and materials of course. So, not perfection at all, just everything 'done right' with good customer service backing it up.

    At what sort of price level should I expect a flaw-free watch as defined above? When the vendor themselves post a main marketing image with a misaligned lume pip on a $1k watch, is that expected? Or when a revered German brand will take 5 months to service a watch in the same price range and more, is that what we should anticipate as good Customer Service?

    So, what price perfection? Do I just cut to the chase, get a Submariner 'beater' and start saving for the Lange?
    I don't think the flaw free watch has been made. If you look closely enough with the unaided eye you will find what most people would call minor flaws or imperfections on any watch. I would focus more on the overall watch.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Cape Town, South Africa
    Posts
    534

    Re: What price perfection?

    Some watches come with a loupe - which is a clear statement about the workmanship. Regardless, I'm talking about this for example:

    Name:  LIMES Neptun 2 02.jpg
Views: 815
Size:  256.9 KB
    Check out that lume pip. I know the watch is at an angle, but other images of this watch illustrate the same flaw. This would drive me crazy at any price point. At the $1.2k odd they want for this one, I would expect better. And I would certainly expect that they would pick this up on their most ubiquitous marketing shot! It makes me wary when you don't pick up a QC slip for a major digital asset that reflects your workmanship globally. It makes me put my wallet back in my pocket.

  4. Remove Advertisements
    WatchUSeek.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Member cs12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    London, United Kingdom, United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,573

    Re: What price perfection?

    Sounds like you dont really know what you want and are itching to spend the money.

    Dont do it as you will end up regretting it.

    I wanted a Rolex, could afford one and went bought one.

    I love it for what it is a nice watch that may appreciate in value (but I dont care about that because I didn't buy it for that reason)

    If you dont really want something you can come up with endless reasons why you shouldn't buy its not a bad thing but the more you think about it you will drive yourself mad over it.
    Fiery the Angels Fell.

    http://www.savewalterwhite.com/

  6. #5
    Member kylemacca01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Leicestershire UK
    Posts
    605

    Re: What price perfection?

    You wont find a perfect watch, esp under a loupe. What i guess you are after is a watch that really stands out as being great value, best bang for the buck.

    Here are a few that are often recommended, rightly so!

    Nomos - all models, in house movement, fantastic quality of finish and very well priced.
    Frederique Constant - Classic/Maxime Manufacture, again in house movements and very nice looking pieces.
    Zenith El primero - first ever auto chrono, fully in house, great deals available currently online
    Glashutte original - amazingly high finish, fully in house, stunning movements, great value (albeit expensive)
    Grand Seiko Spring Drive - revolutionary movement, unbelievable finishing, wonderful designs, exclusivity, hugely underpriced compared to swiss brands
    scottjc likes this.

  7. #6
    Moderator Public Forum John MS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    21,301

    Re: What price perfection?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robbi Laurenson View Post
    Some watches come with a loupe - which is a clear statement about the workmanship. Regardless, I'm talking about this for example:


    Check out that lume pip. I know the watch is at an angle, but other images of this watch illustrate the same flaw. This would drive me crazy at any price point. At the $1.2k odd they want for this one, I would expect better. And I would certainly expect that they would pick this up on their most ubiquitous marketing shot! It makes me wary when you don't pick up a QC slip for a major digital asset that reflects your workmanship globally. It makes me put my wallet back in my pocket.
    Spend enough time and you will find slight misalignment of printing and painting on any watch. Just as minor imperfections in finishing of case and movement surfaces can be found. If you look closely enough. If very small inconsistencies are this troubling I would suggest that you not spend much money on a watch. Just buy a Seiko 5 Sports or a Timex with the understanding that you will find minor flaws in the finishing of those watches too. However you won't be further aggravated by having spent much money on watches with flaws that either slipped through QC or did not rise to the level of concern for QC.

    My approach is different and perhaps a bit more relaxed. I look more at the watch on my wrist as a package and if it makes me smile then that is more than enough.
    Last edited by John MS; January 2nd, 2013 at 17:33.
    RBrylawski likes this.

  8. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    750

    Re: What price perfection?

    As has been said over and over, the perfect watch doesn't exist.
    That said you have said that your research leads you to believe that you will be happy with a $7k Rolex, so may I suggest....

  9. #8
    Member TheWalrus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Vancouver Island / California (depending on the citizenship I use)
    Posts
    9,182

    Re: What price perfection?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Jones Jnr View Post
    As has been said over and over, the perfect watch doesn't exist.
    That said you have said that your research leads you to believe that you will be happy with a $7k Rolex, so may I suggest....

    Neither does the concept of a 'good value'. Buy what you like - getting the most for your money in some nebulusly objective category won't make you happy with your purchase.

    If you want a watch as close to flawless in execution as you can get, do a search for Grand Seiko on these forums. I've never seen on in person, but the photographs and the commentary have me won over.
    Daily Rotation:
    Seiko
    "Save the Ocean" Turtle; Tudor Black Bay; DOXA 1000T Project Aware (75/92); Seiko SKX013; Garmin Descent; Tissot PRS200


  10. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    San Jose, California-USA
    Posts
    37,271

    Re: What price perfection?

    My Nivrels hold up under a loupe very well and then there's my Rainer Nienaber. A real handmade look.

    My 2x Ultra-Optrix used to be my favorite sales aid.

  11. #10
    Member Barry H's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Manchester, UK
    Posts
    2,010

    Re: What price perfection?

    There is a concept called the Schöön Level of Perfection (SLoP). The following was copied verbatim from somewhere on the web (may well have been here on WUS) a while ago. Unfortunately, I didn't save the original poster's name along with the text, but acknowlegement is given to him/her along with my apologies. Worth a read I'd say, then decide.

    In 2003 a fellow WIS launched a very good idea for objectivating the level of finish. I particularly like that [ideal] since it avoids the mine field of brand and type of engine completely. It simply measures the quality of finish. Since that is a factor húgely governed by the law of deminishing returns, it is of great value to weigh the price and escalon in the market. Every next step to perfection costs disproportionately more than the previous. Everey next step is less perfection more value for the unit of money. How this is weíghed by an individual buyer is totally not the point and avoided by the standard. It just gives the level of perfection

    Johannes Schöön uses the magnification at which imperfection in finish/manufacture become visible as a standard for comparison:

    0 is visible with the naked eye (20/20 vision).

    The maximum is 10, which corresponds with the diamond industry standard of perfection, meaning that 10+ = not visible at 10x = deemed ´perfect´.

    Maybe for watches a larger magnification is needed and that is obviously no problem. Just skip the 10+ and add any number. If it takes 20x to make the pixels/resolution of a display/dial visible then 20 it is. The method, standard remains the same.

    This means we have the very flexible SLoP standard to objectively compare the level of quality of finish and maufacture of watches. We can compare the level of finish of a Ventura Kappa with a Seiko EPD with a Casio G-shcock. That of a Pulsar Px with a Hamilton MiBII or a Hamilton Pulsomatic.

    Ditto the Grand Seiko with a Seiko Spirit with a Seiko Sport. Ditto a Rolex sub with a Citizen Chronomaster, a Ventura Sigma, Seiko EPD, Vostok Amphibian, or whatever. It is a criterium that can be used for ALL watches regardless of niche or type of disply or type of engine. If the E-ink pixels of an EPD watch need 20x magnification to show imperfection, then that is 10+ (or 20) and that cán be, diréctly, compaired with say 5 or 8 or 15 or 30 or whatever of a Rolex dial/hands. No more ´I prefer the...´ nor ´In my opinion the quaility is...´ as the only foundations telling nobody anything about the watch but only about the wis writing.

    An observation that a Synchonar case is 0, that of a Seiko SBPG is 5 and a Seiko SDGA is 8 (or 10+ or ....) is a factual comparative measure on which we can báse a choice or opinion. We cán now objectively compare a Grand Seiko with a Spirit; the SLoP does not interprete which level is worth what to whom. If one wants level 10 and is prepaired to pay 100 times more because that is dictated cost by the law of deminishing returns, then thát is personal choice. The fact that the level is 1, 5 or 10 is fact.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •