Why is Getting a Lug Tip-to-Tip Measurement Usually Such A Hassle?

[starter]

Does this strike anyone else as just a little odd? This is arguably the best way to determine "blind" if a watch will fit someone... Yet that data is almost never included. 95% of the time one is forced to scour the internet or search watch forums for private owners who've taken it upon themselves to list dimensions...

Of course, it isn't foolproof, as straight vs. curved lugs can have a huge effect on how large or small a watch fits, but it's a damn sight better than just the diameter excluding crown that's the industry standard measurement... I mean there are 42mm watches with tip-to-tip lengths of 46mm or less, all the way up to 55-60mm monsters that only look good on 8 inch wrists and above... That 42mm dimension tells you almost nothing beyond how big the dial presents, and even then you're beholden to how wide a bezel might be, which is another piece of info that is almost never provided.

It's kind of odd if you think about it... I mean, basically everything you can buy comes with a full list of dimensions. Cell phones, TV's, even books, for God's sake. Why not the $12,000 watch? Could these obsessively detail-oriented Swiss not be bothered to include such basic data, haha?

I know many people will say that regardless of where they buy a watch, they will generally try it on first. I agree, in fact even in situations where I have all the dimensions of a watch I will try and do this. But having these dimensions would be great for those people who are deciding between multiple watches, and want to start paring down a large number of potentials... For instance, a guy with a seven inch wrist could safely take a 60mm tip-to-tip watch out of the running, and that might save him a trip to try it on.

My honest belief? I think the watchmakers are acutely aware that they aren't publishing some specs vital for blind fitting, and it is intended to drive more people into brick and mortar authorized dealers where they actually try on the watch to see if it fits... I don't think it's a coincidence at all that the few manufacturers who do provide these specs are generally indy makers who do a lot of sales from their websites...

[sub40]

I hear ya. I usually resort to doing some measurements off the screen and using the case diameter as a scale, although the accuracy of that is questionable.

[LH2]

I agree! Drives me crazy as it is pretty much never listed. We get case diameter, but the way a watch presents is dependent upon the color of the dial, and the ratio of dial to case that make up the diameter.

[LaBlount]

I agree too. I was shopping for specifically a 22mm lug to lug watch, and many watches fell by the wayside because I couldn't find that spec.

[John MS]

Lug to lug distance is but one of several useful metrics for estimating whether a watch might fit or not. If that measure isn't provided have you tried asking the seller? Or better yet, have you tried the watch on in person? In my experience all the metrics will not tell you much about how a watch will fit and feel on the wrist. You are the first person I've seen that thiks the missing metric is part of a manufacturer dealer conspiracy. More they are focused on making sure you get watch that fits and don't have to deal with returns.

[starter]

Lug to lug distance is but one of several useful metrics for estimating whether a watch might fit or not. If that measure isn't provided have you tried asking the seller? Or better yet, have you tried the watch on in person? In my experience all the metrics will not tell you much about how a watch will fit and feel on the wrist. You are the first person I've seen that thiks the missing metric is part of a manufacturer dealer conspiracy. More they are focused on making sure you get watch that fits and don't have to deal with returns.

Correct, however it is arguably the most important spec for a blind and loose estimation.

Asking a seller online will generally get you nowhere. Have you ever purchased a watch from one of the larger online vendors? Generally the person taking your order has no information about the watch beyond what is already available on the website. Asking the manufacturer is sometimes successful, but often not.

I'm a little unclear as to why you're asking me if I have "tried the watch on in person"... Firstly, I addressed that in my original post, and secondly, the post is not about me and a specific watch... I'm wondering if perhaps you skimmed the post? Unquestionably, full specs online would help even those who intend to try on the watch before they buy, insomuch as that watches with specs wildly beyond what will fit the buyer's wrist can be eliminated from contention, and potentially save the buyer a trip to try those watches on.

Lastly, regarding the "conspiracy" (I see it more as a simple sales decision), seeing as how 1., literally almost every product sold in the world comes with a full list of specs, 2., high-end wristwatches are usually sold and marketed as technically precise instruments (indeed the epitome of a product that would generally come with full specs prominently displayed in the info), 3., Authorized dealers have been taking an enormous hit in the last few years due to the online gray-market sellers, and 4., in direct contrast to the AD-based manufacturers, most online-based direct-sale watchmakers offer a full list of specs... What would your assessment for why the full specs are unlisted be?

[John MS]

Correct, however it is arguably the most important spec for a blind and loose estimation.

Asking a seller online will generally get you nowhere. Have you ever purchased a watch from one of the larger online vendors? Generally the person taking your order has no information about the watch beyond what is already available on the website. Asking the manufacturer is sometimes successful, but often not.

I'm a little unclear as to why you're asking me if I have "tried the watch on in person"... Firstly, I addressed that in my original post, and secondly, the post is not about me and a specific watch... I'm wondering if perhaps you skimmed the post? Unquestionably, full specs online would help even those who intend to try on the watch before they buy, insomuch as that watches with specs wildly beyond what will fit the buyer's wrist can be eliminated from contention, and potentially save the buyer a trip to try those watches on.

Lastly, regarding the "conspiracy" (I see it more as a simple sales decision), seeing as how 1., literally almost every product sold in the world comes with a full list of specs, 2., high-end wristwatches are usually sold and marketed as technically precise instruments (indeed the epitome of a product that would generally come with full specs prominently displayed in the info), 3., Authorized dealers have been taking an enormous hit in the last few years due to the online gray-market sellers, and 4., in direct contrast to the AD-based manufacturers, most online-based direct-sale watchmakers offer a full list of specs... What would your assessment for why the full specs are unlisted be?

This sounds conspiratorial:

My honest belief? I think the watchmakers are acutely aware that they aren't publishing some specs vital for blind fitting, and it is intended to drive more people into brick and mortar authorized dealers where they actually try on the watch to see if it fits... I don't think it's a coincidence at all that the few manufacturers who do provide these specs are generally indy makers who do a lot of sales from their websites...

As to why watch companies do not provide the measurements, I suspect watch makers know the vast majority of watch buyers do not inhabit watch fora and they would have little basis for interpreting whether a watch with a 40mm diamater, 46mm lug to lug distance, 22mm distance between the lugs, non-sloping lugs and a 14mm height might fit or not. Some of those guys might fall into the trap of buying watches with the biggest set of numbers and end up with a platter for a wristwatch. And be very dissatisfied.

In my experience lug-to-lug distance, lug length, lug shape, thickness of the watch, shape of the case, design of bracelet or strap all go into determining whether a watch will fit or not. Those criteria become increasingly important as the watch expands in size beyond the 38mm to 40mm base diameter. Thus I think there is real benefit to trying it on in person.

Watchmakers have as a group never listed detailed measurements of watch cases, so I suspect that they have not had many requests for the information. But mainstreamm makers like Seiko, Rolex, Omega, Longines, etc., etc., sell to a much broader audience that watch collectors. Specialist watch manufacturers that provide detailed specs are probably targeting watch enthusiasts which are a very small part of the watch buying public.

[RichieP]

I can definitely see what you mean about the measurement being useful to estimate how well the watch fits, but I doubt there is any conspiracy to drive you into a watch store. The simply can't list every possible spec about the watch, so they choose which ones to give. They are probably guessing which measurements most people are interested in, and maybe guessing wrong, but not intentionally concealing the measurement.

Anyway, if you are given the case diameter, and if there is a good, straight on, planeform view of the watch, you can get a pretty good idea of lug-to-lug size by measuring its proportion to the case diameter.

[starter]

This sounds conspiratorial:

The term "conspiracy" is generally used to for situations a good deal shadier than what I described. What I described is an alleged policy which some manufacturers may have adopted as one measure of combatting online gray market dealers. But we both know that you used the term because it also brings to mind crazy people, and is a subtle way of discrediting someone.

As to why watch companies do not provide the measurements, I suspect watch makers know the vast majority of watch buyers do not inhabit watch fora and they would have little basis for interpreting whether a watch with a 40mm diamater, 46mm lug to lug distance, 22mm distance between the lugs, non-sloping lugs and a 14mm height might fit or not. Some of those guys might fall into the trap of buying watches with the biggest set of numbers and end up with a platter for a wristwatch. And be very dissatisfied.

In my experience lug-to-lug distance, lug length, lug shape, thickness of the watch, shape of the case, design of bracelet or strap all go into determining whether a watch will fit or not. Those criteria become increasingly important as the watch expands in size beyond the 38mm to 40mm base diameter. Thus I think there is real benefit to trying it on in person.

Watchmakers have as a group never listed detailed measurements of watch cases, so I suspect that they have not had many requests for the information. But mainstreamm makers like Seiko, Rolex, Omega, Longines, etc., etc., sell to a much broader audience that watch collectors. Specialist watch manufacturers that provide detailed specs are probably targeting watch enthusiasts which are a very small part of the watch buying public.

So... Just to be clear: you believe that more technical information would be of little use to the average watch buyer? Seriously? Who, for instance, really needs to know what the precise measurements of the paperback they recently purchased are? Why is it a fine thing that Rolex, which produces "superlative chronometers" is less diligent in this regard than, say, Penguin Publishing, which produces "James and the Giant Peach"?

[John MS]

The term "conspiracy" is generally used to for situations a good deal shadier than what I described. What I described is an alleged policy which some manufacturers may have adopted as one measure of combatting online gray market dealers. But we both know that you used the term because it also brings to mind crazy people, and is a subtle way of discrediting someone.



So... Just to be clear: you believe that more technical information would be of little use to the average watch buyer? Seriously? Who, for instance, really needs to know what the precise measurements of the paperback they recently purchased are? Why is it a fine thing that Rolex, which produces "superlative chronometers" is less diligent in this regard than, say, Penguin Publishing, which produces "James and the Giant Peach"?

Uuuhhh...are you responding to the right message? I believe that watchmakers feel that the average watch buyer really would have little use for detailed measurements. I'm not aware of any hue and cry from the watch buying public for that kind of information. And I agree with the watchmakers apparent stance. Your book analogy has me completely confused.

For those few of us who obsess over such trivia the information can be gotten from the seller or manufacturer. Or from the few WIS oriented companies that provide it. However, the single best way to determine if a watch fits and looks right on the wrist is to try it on.