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Would you buy a crowd-funded watch?

6K views 84 replies 38 participants last post by  docvail 
#1 ·
A.Manzoni & Fils tries to 'kick start' new watch design; aiming for $850,000 in crowd funding | Vintage Watches Middle East

So, I saw an advert in a posh magazine for a watch that doesn't exist yet.

The company in question, A.Manzoni & Fils, is trying to drum up cash to take a design from prototype to production. Essentially its a pitch to buy a watch 'off-plan'.

If crowd funding is the internet way to raise money in an age when banks balk at providing venture capital, will this mark a new direction in the development of new watches and watch brands?

Would you buy one?

Stuart
 
#5 ·
Despite what's gone on over the last week I absolutely would. I think there are legitimate companies out there using it to launch brands successfully. I've actually funded several now. In addition to currently backing the Lew & Huey Riccardo, I've funded:

Pebble Smartwatch (currently in possession)
Watch Analog watch Watch accessory Fashion accessory Strap


Original Grain (Rosewood - Shipping in a few weeks)
Watch Analog watch Watch accessory Fashion accessory Brand


CST-01 (Shipping later this year)
Bracelet Fashion accessory Jewellery Wristband Leather


I think Kickstarter is a great vehicle for new watchmakers to get started and create a brand. It comes down to the backer though to really do some research and vet the project first. Since Kickstarter doesn't stand behind the backers in the case of fraud or a project not delivering you need to be careful but I'm a firm believer in the process in general.
 

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#10 · (Edited)
I think Kickstarter is a great vehicle for new watchmakers to get started and create a brand. It comes down to the backer though to really do some research and vet the project first. Since Kickstarter doesn't stand behind the backers in the case of fraud or a project not delivering you need to be careful but I'm a firm believer in the process in general.
No. I'd prefer that the company bring the product to the market on their own. After all, by being an early investor, the best you can get is a discounted product. It's not like you get shares in the company that can grow in value.
Go easy on me because I am having trouble articulating this thought. I like the idea of Kickstarter but there is a subtle difference between folks who are trying to do something really innovative and original and folks that are essentially using Kickstarter to organize a group buy of some mildly customized Chinese watch. I guess that I'd rather use Kickstarter to help someone build something new and interesting rather than just become a retail middle-man without having to risk their own money. In some cases, it seems like folks are using WUS polls to generate design ideas as well.

I suppose that it really doesn't matter in the end. Customers get interesting watches and sellers don't have to risk as much. It's a win. Moreover, I know that running a kickstarter campaign and organizing design and production is a lot of work. It does, however, take a leap of faith on the customer's part.

Kickstarter represents a new way of doing business, a way that is still being refined. That, I guess, is why I'm still uneasy. If I'm investing in someone's dream, I want to feel like the risk is worth it and I want to know that they stand to lose more than I do if it fails.

As I said, these thoughts are kind of half-baked and shot from the hip...
 
#9 ·
No. Not for a $5000 watch, anyway. A company that is attempting to create itself as a luxury brand ought to be able to raise capital on its own, without needing to turn to its customers. The whole idea of the luxury watch market is aspirational - that buying the luxury watch elevates the owner. It is not an "elevation" if the watchmaker comes to your door with a donations box in hand.

However, I am more than willing to give a look to independent, start-up watch companies trying to offer novel or innovative products at reasonable prices. (I just pledged to get a Bradley watch the other day.)
 
#11 ·
Ken has it right. It's one thing for an upstart company to put everything in the pot with their dream....But to simply say,"I got this idea
now you send me the money and I'll make it." That's backers putting people in business for a project and if the idea man wants to back out
or can't deliver the backers loose.....That's called "GAMBLING WITH OTHER PEOPLES MONEY"...And I don't play/back that game.
 
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#12 · (Edited)
I'm about to order (when pre-orders open up) a watch from Lew and Huey. Their first watch the Ricardo was a kickstarter project and it's done quite well. The newest watch the Acionna looks really cool and will be a diver, with an internal rotating bezel and come with a Miyota 9015 movement. So, I guess since I'm about to order one (which I won't likely see until November), my answer is yes. Yes, I would. But, and it's a big BUT. The watch I'm ordering is affordable. I would not likely invest in a luxury (meaning $$$) watch this way.
 
#13 · (Edited)
I'm about to order (when pre-orders open up) a watch from Lew and Huey. Their first watch the Ricardo was a kickstarter project and it's done quite well.
By what yardstick? They haven't delivered a single piece. And herein lies my curiosity in this source of funding. Kickstarter declares a project a 'success' once the creator raises their target pledge amount. If you look at L&H, when he first listed his Riccardo project, he listed a target of $40k, and that project was deemed 'unsuccessful' Jun 16 when he only raised $10,800. So he relisted the same project with a target of $10k, and guess what -- it's a success. To his credit, he's raised $26k now, so while some tout that he has raised 250% of his goal, that goal has been a moving target.

In reading about failed Kickstarter projects, one sees that many creators do not have contracts in place with manufacturers to supply their product in a certain volume, at a certain cost and by a certain date when the creator lists it on Kickstarter. So some have failed right out of the chute because they couldn't ever supply their product at the price offered, and some not at all. So where does that leave those who pledged? What recourse do they have? Apparently, not much.

Many of the projects state that the final product may not look exactly like images or prototypes. Personally, I wouldn't 'pre-buy' without knowing what I'm getting and without assurances I can get my money back if it's different or excessively delayed, especially from a project creator who has zero track record of ever bringing a product to market. There is no paypal to give me back my money. Once the target has been reached, the funds are released to the individual project creator. I'm not sure what recourse one would have through their credit card company, though. But one can't ignore that a whole bunch of folks are willing to pre-order a wide variety of products.

I believe Kickstarter was founded with the intent of raising cash for more art related projects. It will be interesting to watch it evolve into a vehicle for seeding product start ups.
 
#18 ·
Would you buy a crowd-funded watch?


No.

If one is to start a business and reap the potential rewards, one has to risk one's capital. Not the buyer's.
 
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#19 ·
To say no is certainly your right. But the other statement seems a bit off to me. I see nothing wrong with customer funded projects and it's highly likely some potentially great things would not be created without this type of funding.
 
#21 ·
A.Manzoni & Fils tries to 'kick start' new watch design; aiming for $850,000 in crowd funding | Vintage Watches Middle East

So, I saw an advert in a posh magazine for a watch that doesn't exist yet.

The company in question, A.Manzoni &
Fils, is trying to drum up cash to take a design from prototype to production. Essentially its a pitch to buy a watch 'off-plan'.

If crowd funding is the internet way to raise money in an age when banks balk at providing venture capital, will this mark a new direction in the development of new watches and watch brands?

Would you buy one?

Stuart
No more than I would prepay a nonexisting watch on kickstarter.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Crown-funded project been running successfully on the Chinese form by Ed and Thomas for a few years now.

It's more of a fun project watch than money making business but it's very much resemble the finance model.

Here's a photo of the 2012 WUS X Seagull moonphase, special run of 200 or 250 I believe, all individually engraved with personal message and SE number

The involvement into planning, design and voting is very exciting to say the least
 

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#29 ·
I agree with you. I've been able to offer input into the next Lew and Huey watch, which as been listened to and even incorporated into the design. In its way, it makes buying the watch just a bit more special.
 
#28 ·
This is an interesting concept. I have never considered committing to buying a watch that has not been produced yet. However, if the watch was promising enough, I might consider it. Especially, if the price tag was more comfortable than the 5k in this case.
 
#31 ·
It's a watch! It is not food for your family. Technically it is disposable income! If you can't afford to lose it or you are living from pay cheque to paycheque, you should not be crowd funding. Get a Seiko or Timex or whatever- good, reliable, nothing fancy.

It's not like established small comapnies are any better- Stolas has $200 of mine for a deposit and the have gone off the grid. They have had my money for over a year, with no watch in sight. I place a deposit as they had an existing line and were offering a new line at discounted prices for early uptakers. Sounds like sensible business practice. Well, I was wrong there.....but one bad egg should not not smear other people trying their best out there

So, yes, I will keep doing it, with due diligence of course.....if it turns out well, great, if it doesn't , of course I will be upset and try to find a remedy....but at the end of the day I have to prioritise on important things in my life as well
 
#34 ·
Of course it is risk laden. If it wasn't, then this question wouldn't need to be posed.

Generally with greater risk comes greater potential reward. As long as you fully understand the risk (including doing some research into who is behind the watch), then the potential reward is that you get a fairly unique watch at a good price. Of course, there are other risks (and rewards) involved, but it ultimately comes down to each individual's perception of risk and associated level of comfort.
 
#37 ·
Okay, so we know due diligence is required. A look at options on Kickstarter right now indicate that people will take a punt at the low-priced end of the scale, but not for top dollar.

Fair enough.

I still like the idea of crowd funding as a market tester. First movers balance risk with the reward and it also encourages the development of new ideas, outside of traditional sources.

Scam proofing is obviously the next challenge.
 
#38 ·
Okay, so we know due diligence is required. A look at options on Kickstarter right now indicate that people will take a punt at the low-priced end of the scale, but not for top dollar.

Fair enough.

I still like the idea of crowd funding as a market tester. First movers balance risk with the reward and it also encourages the development of new ideas, outside of traditional sources.

Scam proofing is obviously the next challenge.
Those "traditional sources" have a long history of vetting ideas and products. Cant imagine someone would go the route of a non-traditional capital raise if they didn't have to, so evidently the risk/return wasn't good enough for the primary funding channel (or perhaps worse, scam). That alone shifts an undue amount of risk to the buying-public -which doesn't bode well for a successful product launch or longevity. In short I wouldn't ever buy a watch with this sort of development finance history.
 
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