Has your Co-Axial equipped Omega stopped unexpectedly? - Page 3

View Poll Results: Has your co-axial equipped Omega stopped unexpectedly?

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  • Seamaster Planet Ocean

    10 55.56%
  • Seamaster Planet Ocean Chronograph

    2 11.11%
  • Speedmaster Co-Axial

    1 5.56%
  • Aqua Terra

    2 11.11%
  • Hour Vision

    0 0%
  • Seamaster GMT

    0 0%
  • Seamaster 300 M

    2 11.11%
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    0 0%
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Thread: Has your Co-Axial equipped Omega stopped unexpectedly?

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  1. #21

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    Re: Has your Co-Axial equipped Omega stopped unexpectedly?

    I've owned three coaxials and two of them stopped dead within the first 6 months. The third I sold after four months of ownership partly because I had no warranty on it and was spooked by what happened with the other two. It may or may not have continued to run like a champ.

    To state the obvious, that's a 67% failure rate. I'm not grinding an axe--I like Omega and I know that I'm not a statistically significant sample--but these are the facts you asked for. If you don't want to know, don't ask. I agree that this problem may well be overblown, especially among watch nuts who pay attention to sites like this, but it's disingenuous to pretend it's not a problem, that it was a plot cooked up by a vast anti-Omega conspiracy, or that it hasn't done damage to Omega's image. All you need to do for a reality check is list a used coaxial on e-bay.

    The positive side is that all three had phenomenal rate stability, and I still own and wear daily one of the three because of its tremendous legibility, accuracy and functionality. Would I choose it if I were sailing around the world? Not yet--it's on probation.

  2. #22
    Member CajunMike's Avatar
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    Re: Has your Co-Axial equipped Omega stopped unexpectedly?

    I simply cannot understand the need to link supposed problems with the Co-Axial Escapement to problems with a movement housing the escapement. Georges Z has long, long been a detractor of the ETA 2892A2s and the issue with sudden stops which were reported on a casual basis with the 1120 and I dont seem to see any more reports with the c2500 based watches. Nor does it appear that the stops have been frequently reported with the C.33xx based watches as problems with the Movement itself were exposed. Not one mention that i can recall of any of the problems being exposed as purely an escapement problem.

    I personally have a PO that has experienced a sluggish start, an issue that was also known to the 1120, yet it seems to get blamed as a coaxial problem??? My po keeps time to less than a second a day and has never stopped unexpectedly in 3 years of ownership. Simply a flawless performer.

    On the flipside, just for comparative purposes, I know of 3 people in my immediate friend/family circle that own a ladies Rolex powered by c.2235(I think thats the ladies caliber)? Two of those people have issues, one was sent in for repairs, the other has dealt with the movement gaining minutes of time in the lower end of the power reserve, not the end, the lower end. By the way, neither of these were reported by them on the Rolex forum. Am I to assume that because 2/3 people I know had issues with their Rolex that 66% of all c.2235 watches are problematic.

    Just as I think this is not only irresponsible of me to report something like that, I also think its irresponsible to focus on the coaxial escapement as a problem for movements that had some minor apparently inherent issues to begin with.

    Personally, I have no problems with polls looking for "issues" but specific polls targeting movements using the coaxial escapement are pointless unless the defect that caused the stoppage to begin with can clearly be determined to be from the coaxial escapment, which I can say with almost 100% certainty that I have never seen a post where a watch came back from service that the owner was clearly informed that the coaxial escapement was the problem, and im pretty sure that in the case of the 33xx, it had absolutely nothing to do with the escapement. I think a more appropriate poll title should have been whether or not your c. 2500 base watch had a problem because we obviously know of the c.33xx problems. I think also to further refine the specific target, the responder should note whether the watch was Brand new in box from an AD or not as grey market is a risky purchase as is buying second hand as one generally has no idea what the watch has been through prior to the purchase.

    Sorry for the rant here.
    I AM A WATCHAHOLIC

  3. #23

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    Re: Has your Co-Axial equipped Omega stopped unexpectedly?

    I don't know what caused the sudden death failure of my POC, but my coaxial Bond GMT was repaired by replacing the pallet fork. That would appear to specify an escapement failure.

    Again, I'm not attacking Omega or generalizing my experience or saying anyone else would be better. I've owned a lot of mechanical watches and I don't think it's shocking that one would stop working. I just answered the question that was asked. FWIW I've also owned several non-coaxial Seamaster GMTs and none have ever given me a hiccup.
    Last edited by Fireform; July 31st, 2009 at 21:18.

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  5. #24
    AAP
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    Re: Has your Co-Axial equipped Omega stopped unexpectedly?

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunMike View Post
    I simply cannot understand the need to link supposed problems with the Co-Axial Escapement to problems with a movement housing the escapement. Georges Z has long, long been a detractor of the ETA 2892A2s and the issue with sudden stops which were reported on a casual basis with the 1120 and I dont seem to see any more reports with the c2500 based watches. Nor does it appear that the stops have been frequently reported with the C.33xx based watches as problems with the Movement itself were exposed. Not one mention that i can recall of any of the problems being exposed as purely an escapement problem.

    I personally have a PO that has experienced a sluggish start, an issue that was also known to the 1120, yet it seems to get blamed as a coaxial problem??? My po keeps time to less than a second a day and has never stopped unexpectedly in 3 years of ownership. Simply a flawless performer.

    On the flipside, just for comparative purposes, I know of 3 people in my immediate friend/family circle that own a ladies Rolex powered by c.2235(I think thats the ladies caliber)? Two of those people have issues, one was sent in for repairs, the other has dealt with the movement gaining minutes of time in the lower end of the power reserve, not the end, the lower end. By the way, neither of these were reported by them on the Rolex forum. Am I to assume that because 2/3 people I know had issues with their Rolex that 66% of all c.2235 watches are problematic.

    Just as I think this is not only irresponsible of me to report something like that, I also think its irresponsible to focus on the coaxial escapement as a problem for movements that had some minor apparently inherent issues to begin with.

    Personally, I have no problems with polls looking for "issues" but specific polls targeting movements using the coaxial escapement are pointless unless the defect that caused the stoppage to begin with can clearly be determined to be from the coaxial escapment, which I can say with almost 100% certainty that I have never seen a post where a watch came back from service that the owner was clearly informed that the coaxial escapement was the problem, and im pretty sure that in the case of the 33xx, it had absolutely nothing to do with the escapement. I think a more appropriate poll title should have been whether or not your c. 2500 base watch had a problem because we obviously know of the c.33xx problems. I think also to further refine the specific target, the responder should note whether the watch was Brand new in box from an AD or not as grey market is a risky purchase as is buying second hand as one generally has no idea what the watch has been through prior to the purchase.

    Sorry for the rant here.
    Mike, no need to apologize. If you're going to rant, make it a good one.

    You raised a lot of good points (and thankfully none of them had to do with adding a "no issues" option). Perhaps it was unfair to single out only co-axial models without complete understanding of the underlying issue, but frankly, I don't remember reading anything about 1120's stopping intermittently. We did however see a sudden rush of posts concerning stopping in co-axial equipped models despite full or nearly full power reserves, so I thought we should nail down the issue; was it one particular model, year, circumstance, etc. I already knew that the incidence rate was low, so I was just trying to draw out more information from those who had been affected. That is all. My hope was that someone who had already had the issue repaired could shed some light on what went wrong. I don't see anything irresponsible about that.

    My watchmaker told me that he believed the issue was connected to the intermediary wheel, which is part of the escapement assembly. Watch this space for more info when mine comes back from repair. Once the part has been replaced, we'll have a better idea of what went wrong.
    Alex

    "Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, 'In this world, Elwood, you must be' - she always called me Elwood - 'In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant.' Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me." - Elwood P. Dowd (Harvey - 1950)

  6. #25
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    Re: Has your Co-Axial equipped Omega stopped unexpectedly?

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunMike View Post
    On the flipside, just for comparative purposes, I know of 3 people in my immediate friend/family circle that own a ladies Rolex powered by c.2235(I think thats the ladies caliber)? Two of those people have issues, one was sent in for repairs, the other has dealt with the movement gaining minutes of time in the lower end of the power reserve, not the end, the lower end. By the way, neither of these were reported by them on the Rolex forum.
    2235 is correct for the current ladies DJ. My midsize has it as well and is an excellent timekeeper, losing 1.5 sec/day on the wrist. It gains time off the wrist (stored face up on a pillow), but I don't know how much since I've never bothered to check it that carefully. I also have no idea if that's due to lower power reserve or positional variance.

    I have heard, though, of at least one 2235 that simply would not be regulated to within COSC specs, so certainly they can have problems. This issue was reported on the Rolex forum fairly recently.

    In Alex's defense, he really isn't trying to get any kind of relative sampling here. But I do take your point that the co-ax might not be the problem with some of these issues. I suspect we'll never really know. Omega can be nearly as secretive as Rolex when it comes to admitting service issues.

    Jeannie
    Last edited by GinGinD; July 31st, 2009 at 21:45.

  7. #26
    Member M4tt's Avatar
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    Re: Has your Co-Axial equipped Omega stopped unexpectedly?

    I've owned three coaxials and two of them stopped dead within the first 6 months. The third I sold after four months of ownership partly because I had no warranty on it and was spooked by what happened with the other two. It may or may not have continued to run like a champ.
    The positive side is that all three had phenomenal rate stability, and I still own and wear daily one of the three because of its tremendous legibility, accuracy and functionality. Would I choose it if I were sailing around the world? Not yet--it's on probation.
    ????

    To state the obvious, that's a 67% failure rate. I'm not grinding an axe--I like Omega and I know that I'm not a statistically significant sample--but these are the facts you asked for. If you don't want to know, don't ask. I agree that this problem may well be overblown, especially among watch nuts who pay attention to sites like this, but it's disingenuous to pretend it's not a problem, that it was a plot cooked up by a vast anti-Omega conspiracy, or that it hasn't done damage to Omega's image. All you need to do for a reality check is list a used coaxial on e-bay.
    Is this a fair representation of what was said? As the only person who mentioned a conspiracy, off the cuff once, I assume you are referring to my ppoint that it would be easy and cheap to skew the sample. Businesses do things like this all the time. I mentioned no vast anti Omega conspiracy and nor has anyone else apart from you. (Unless I missed something you are about to show me.)

    No one is pretending it hasn't damaged Omega's image, it has.

    I and the forum members who understand either statistics orexperimental design have been banging on about how the sample is skewed horribly. Oddly you don't mention that.

    I apologise that I am being so grumpy with you but this is starting to get on my nerves. That's not only your fault.
    Luck happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca

  8. #27
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    Re: Has your Co-Axial equipped Omega stopped unexpectedly?

    thanks for posting about this, alex, and aside from learning about the problem and remedy ( which obviously is very important), i might suggest you ask the service center the incidence of these type of "coaxial" problems ( if, in fact, it was the problem to begin with) .

    though i suspect no one will ever know as gingind stated, anything aside from these polls/internet reportings to at least get some other sources of info. ( absolutely no disrespect or disregard intended for those that have had problems)



    Quote Originally Posted by AAP View Post
    Mike, no need to apologize. If you're going to rant, make it a good one.

    You raised a lot of good points (and thankfully none of them had to do with adding a "no issues" option). Perhaps it was unfair to single out only co-axial models without complete understanding of the underlying issue, but frankly, I don't remember reading anything about 1120's stopping intermittently. We did however see a sudden rush of posts concerning stopping in co-axial equipped models despite full or nearly full power reserves, so I thought we should nail down the issue; was it one particular model, year, circumstance, etc. I already knew that the incidence rate was low, so I was just trying to draw out more information from those who had been affected. That is all. My hope was that someone who had already had the issue repaired could shed some light on what went wrong. I don't see anything irresponsible about that.

    My watchmaker told me that he believed the issue was connected to the intermediary wheel, which is part of the escapement assembly. Watch this space for more info when mine comes back from repair. Once the part has been replaced, we'll have a better idea of what went wrong.
    Last edited by acdelco; July 31st, 2009 at 21:50.
    --AC

  9. #28
    Member CajunMike's Avatar
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    Re: Has your Co-Axial equipped Omega stopped unexpectedly?

    Quote Originally Posted by AAP View Post
    You raised a lot of good points (and thankfully none of them had to do with adding a "no issues" option).
    I had actually started to type a comment regarding "no isssues" but the poll is what it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by AAP View Post
    Perhaps it was unfair to single out only co-axial models without complete understanding of the underlying issue, but frankly, I don't remember reading anything about 1120's stopping intermittently.
    Been around the forums for 5+ years now more as a prolific reader than poster. I have seen several posts crop up regarding the 1120 stopping similar to the PO, and as I stated Georges Z. had a habit of driving this point home as he has seen his share too I guess. Not a frequent issue, but seemingly common enough for a "basis of reference".


    Quote Originally Posted by AAP View Post
    We did however see a sudden rush of posts concerning stopping in co-axial equipped models despite full or nearly full power reserves, so I thought we should nail down the issue; was it one particular model, year, circumstance, etc. I already knew that the incidence rate was low, so I was just trying to draw out more information from those who had been affected. That is all. My hope was that someone who had already had the issue repaired could shed some light on what went wrong. I don't see anything irresponsible about that.
    I never said the basis for your poll was irresponsible I really just disagree with your inclusion of "coaxial" terminology. Its irresponsible in that it tends to shine a negative light on specifically the "coaxial escapement". A slight that up to this point cannot be proven at all. I think that viewers of a poll with that title may be misled to think that the coaxial is a bad product. In fact, it has proven thus far to be a great technical advancement. Its unfortunate that Omega chose to install it in the 2892 based watches and the F.Piguet. I personally feel like many others that the 2892 is a fine movement, subject to its fair share of failures like any other mass produced movement. The fact that we have seen a few threads lately of PO stops is troubling of course but not unexpected.

    Quote Originally Posted by AAP View Post
    My watchmaker told me that he believed the issue was connected to the intermediary wheel, which is part of the escapement assembly. Watch this space for more info when mine comes back from repair. Once the part has been replaced, we'll have a better idea of what went wrong.
    Of course, statistically it is entirely possible that the coaxial escapement will have an issue that will cause a failure, as would a stardard lever type escapement. The only question is does the failure rate of the coaxial escapement exceed that of a traditional lever escapement. You and I may never know that.
    I AM A WATCHAHOLIC

  10. #29
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    Re: Has your Co-Axial equipped Omega stopped unexpectedly?

    There's an old saying to the effect of, "If you think that everyone around you is crazy, chances are the only crazy one is you." So, I must be the crazy one.

    The irony here is that this thread has caused me substantially more grief than I felt when my Seamaster actually entered his coma. Odd that talking about the issue has been more unpleasant than the issue itself.

    I had locked this thread last night just to put myself out of misery, but someone asked that I reopen it for posterity's sake. I agreed, but I won't be commenting any further in it.

    For me, this is a reminder of what the road to hell is paved with . . .
    Last edited by AAP; August 1st, 2009 at 17:24.
    Alex

    "Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, 'In this world, Elwood, you must be' - she always called me Elwood - 'In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant.' Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me." - Elwood P. Dowd (Harvey - 1950)

  11. #30
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    Re: Has your Co-Axial equipped Omega stopped unexpectedly?

    Hi; I´ve always hated people trying to spread the rumor coax equipped Omegas had issues.... until today; My beloved XL PO purchased dec - 2007 suddenly stopped.... I tried to wind it up manually but noticed it was full....... on the aftenoon went to the dealer and left it there; I hope it doesn´t take too long to fix it!!!!!!!!!
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