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  1. #1
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    Lemania

    Hi,

    I saw a post in the Tissot forum stating that production of lemania movements are beeing discontinued. What will then happen to the movement used in the Speedmaster? Isn't the Omega 861/1861 in fact Lemania movements? Will Omega start making Speedmasters based on the 7650 instead?

    Stupid question, but I'm a bit confused... A Speedmaster without the Lemania movement would lose a lot of the space connection obiously...

    Eric

  2. #2
    Member georges zaslavsky's Avatar
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    Re: Lemania

    To answer your question, Lemania was part of Omega from 1932 till 1985 (year at which it was sold to Heuer who resold the Lemania company to Investcorp in 1989 and which was sold by Investcorp to Breguet in 1999). Lemania movements aren't used in Tissot chronographs anymore, the Lemania 5100 are not used in Omega chronos anymore same remark for the Lemania 1340 and Lemania 2310 movements. The Lemania 2310 was used by Patek before it made its own inhouse chrono movement (see pic enclosed) but also by Ulysse Nardin in their limited moonphase handwound chrono and it is used by Breguet in the ref 5237BA/12/9V6 and in the Vacheron Constantin les Historiques Chrono.The Lemania 1350 is only used by Breguet in the Type XX and Type XXI chronos as well as by Ebel in their 125, 1911 and Tarawa chronographs. The speedy pro is still powered by the cal 1861 (a modified lemania 1873) and same for cal 1866 for the speedy moonphase.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Lemania

    I read someplace that Lemania is owned by the Swatch group now. They own Omega also. And production of the L1873 is not discontinued, but is now restricted to solely to Omega (cal. 1861, used in the Speedmaster moonwatch) because of that, which is why TAG Heuer had to change the Carerra reissue in 2000.


    Lemania is also now making Breguet movements...and is not Breguet also owned by the Swatch group? TAG Heuer, being owned by the competition (LVMH), would naturally lose out. Odd that Tissot would get left out...Swatch owns them too. However, Tissot and Omega are in different niches in the watch universe. TAG and Omega directly compete, which is yet another reason the Swatch honchos wouldn't want the L1873, the last great chronograph movement with ties to F. Piguet (the designer of its 27 CHRO C12, aka L2310) that is in production, available to the competition....

    Miao, Cat

    Miao, Cat
    Last edited by Cat91; May 18th, 2006 at 02:30. Reason: typos

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  5. #4
    Member georges zaslavsky's Avatar
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    Re: Lemania

    Lemania belongs to Swatch and it was integrated to the Swatch group in 2000 after Swatch baught Breguet and La Nouvelle Lemania. Tissot was and is classified as a middle of the range brand in the past and even today so that is why Lemania movements were not sold to Tissot after 1972. Tag doesn't compete with Omega and was never able to compete with Omega, it was never a manufacture known for the reliability of its movements, it was just an assembleur who baught eta, felsa and valjoux movements who engraved them with their name Heuer and without doing any modifications. Heuer never played in the same ground than Omega. Even today, Omega is superior to Tag as it was the case in the past.You made a mistake Piguet never designed the lemania 2310, it designed the 1185. Albert Piguet who worked for Lemania designed the 27 chrono c12 in 1942.
    Omega the sign of Excellence since 1848. Jaeger Le Coultre Horlogerie de Luxe depuis 1833
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    Member Henry T's Avatar
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    Re: Lemania

    Georges,

    I've heard people saying that the later day c.5100 have plastic wheels in them, like those used in the some Sinns and Fortises.

    Does it mean,
    1) the earlier c.5100 have all metal wheels?
    2) if not, how does the performance of the c.5100 with plactic wheels compare with those with metal wheels?
    c) how does the c.1040 and c.1045 in old Omegas compare with the c.5100?

    Thanks.
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  7. #6
    Member georges zaslavsky's Avatar
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    Re: Lemania

    Hi HenryThe 1045/5100 didn't and doesn't use plastic wheels but nylon parts for a better lubrication of the movement and this since the introduction of the movement since 1974. The 1045 is different in terms of finish than the 5100 and it has the typical Omega rose gold finish.
    The 1045 is a refinished 5100. However I can't compare a 5100 with a 1340/1350 which are far more complex and far more top of the range than the 5100, the 1340 is the self winding version of the lemania 1973. The metallic parts on the 1040/1340/1350 are very durable and same comment for the nylon wheels of the 1045/5100. The 1045 was produced by Omega in 1974 because the 1040 was too costly to manufacture.

    regards

    georges
    Omega the sign of Excellence since 1848. Jaeger Le Coultre Horlogerie de Luxe depuis 1833
    22 times Olympic games timekeeper, Nasa watch supplier and holder of several world records of precision, Omega has the world's trust
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  8. #7
    Member Henry T's Avatar
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    Re: Lemania

    Georges,

    So, the nylon parts in the c.5100 would not make it less durable or perform poorly?

    Thanks
    Kleptocracy : A government of thieves, by thieves and for thieves.

  9. #8
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    Re: Lemania

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry T
    Georges,

    I've heard people saying that the later day c.5100 have plastic wheels in them, like those used in the some Sinns and Fortises.

    Does it mean,
    1) the earlier c.5100 have all metal wheels?
    2) if not, how does the performance of the c.5100 with plactic wheels compare with those with metal wheels?
    c) how does the c.1040 and c.1045 in old Omegas compare with the c.5100?

    Thanks.
    1. Well, the clutch wheel is one of the nylon parts, as well as the day and date wheels and a few others parts.
    2. The use of nylon parts offer the advantages of lower production costs, and self-lubrication. They're not as pretty, but they're not meant to be.
    c. IMO, they're both excellent movements. From the outside, the 5100 seems to offer more, with the addition of a Day indicator and a separate 24 hour dial at the 12 o'clock position. Inside, the nylon parts used in the 5100 are generally seen as an advantage, not just in lowering costs, but in the longevity of the movement. Granted, the 5100 isn't as pretty as the 1340, but it wasn't meant to be. It was designed to be a simple, rugged, workhorse of a movement.

    eric

  10. #9
    Member Henry T's Avatar
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    Re: Lemania

    Thanks Eric. There is always something new to learn everyday.
    Kleptocracy : A government of thieves, by thieves and for thieves.

  11. #10
    Member georges zaslavsky's Avatar
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    Re: Lemania

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry T
    Georges,

    So, the nylon parts in the c.5100 would not make it less durable or perform poorly?

    Thanks
    To answer your question,they are very durable and perform very well, the main point of the 5100 when introducing these nylon parts was to have a great movement lubrication.
    Omega the sign of Excellence since 1848. Jaeger Le Coultre Horlogerie de Luxe depuis 1833
    22 times Olympic games timekeeper, Nasa watch supplier and holder of several world records of precision, Omega has the world's trust
    Omega and Rolex for ever
    Eterna Nothing but Watchmaking since 1856
    Zenith Swiss Watchmaking and Chronometry champion since 1865

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