Show me your 376.0822 Speedmaster! - Page 9
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Thread: Show me your 376.0822 Speedmaster!

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  1. #81
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    Re: Show me your 376.0822 Speedmaster!

    The Omega Speedmaster Lemania 1045 (5100) Grail has been always been a tough watch to find. They just don’t come up for sale very often..
    You don’t have to worry about the fakers as they seem to have left this one alone so far. Estimates are that only 1000 were made and the case design is quite different to the normal Speedmaster, thicker and with the pushers enclosed.
    I am on my second watch now and having recently sold the first one I bought.

    The main culprits for less than perfect versions seems to be Omega themselves.

    Examples that have been through Bienne, come back with alternative dial, hands, and bezel. Some of these changes are easy to spot other are not, so I thought I would list a few things I have noticed in my hunt for the Grail in case others may be looking for one.
    Here are the differences

    The Bienne – replacement dial
    Does not have the number 10,
    The minute markers are a smaller diameter and so leave a gap near the chapter ring markers.
    The luminous hour markers do not extent out as far as the chapter ring.
    The day and date window is not enclosed – and is open to the right of the date.
    The 24 hour dial has a shaded area from 6 to 18
    The word OMEGA has a different font - and
    The S in Speedmaster is very different.

    The Bienne replacement hands
    The hour hand is fatter
    Both hands are not so sharp/pointed at the ends
    On both hands the lume does not extend for the full length on the hand
    The chronograph second hand does not have a Diamond lume section.

    The replacement Bezel
    It has an accent over the E, not present on the original
    The 70 marker has a low dot, whereas the original has a dot to the right of the 70

    Bracelet and end pieces

    The original bracelet is the famous 1450 and ends are numbered 809
    whereas the newer replacements ends are numbered 808
    I have seen some Grails with different replacement bracelets, including the standard 1171 speedy bracelet.

    So all in all quite a few differences – I appreciate that parts are no longer available, however you would have thought that Omega could try harder to make replacements that keep the look of the watch the same.
    Good luck finding one of these, if you do in my opinion it is well worth the search.
    To anyone who has a Bienne refurbished watch – my advice is to keep the old parts safe..

    Cheers

    Mark

    The Bienne Re-furb



    My recent watch - the Chrono second counter has a broken end, but apart from that it is all original.




    The one I sold recently


    And before the day wheel was changed
    "We haven't had that spirit here - Since nineteen sixty-nine"

  2. #82
    Member Pascal S's Avatar
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    Re: Show me your 376.0822 Speedmaster!

    I'm not at all convinced the accented bezel can be necessarily defined as a replacement part. The reason is that I've seen several of these watches in their fully original configuration, including my own example, with that particular bezel. In the case of my watch, it never benefited from any cosmetic care, so the bezel is the one it left Bienne with.

    My theory is that there has been two production batches for this part: an initial one (possibly of a thousand) without the accented character, and a second one with it. In the meantime, the watch turned out to be a bit of a flop on the market, so Omega got stuck with the remainder of the second production batch for future service needs. My personal guesstimate for the total number of these watches is that around 1,500 were made, and since the last 200 (the Italian market only version mith321 posted a picture of) got a specific solid gold bezel, that's another 200 bezel inserts freed up for future needs.

    So what we possibly have now is Omega taking advantage of a part it already had in its inventory, and that since the day production of this chronograph ended. Given their reluctance to make new parts according to the original specs, I certainly don't see them ordering a new batch of bezels if they didn't have them already.


    Finally, one last word regarding the bracelet: the 808 end pieces were those used on the regular Moonwatch, while the 809 were specific to the Grail. Once again, it appears that Omega doesn't have parts specific to this watch so owners who wish to track a ref. 1450 often have to use the 808 end pieces. Besides, according to Ofrei's website, the recommended replacement bracelet for the Grail is now ref. 1998-849.


  3. #83
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    Re: Show me your 376.0822 Speedmaster!

    My original bezel was accent-less while its replacement was accented, although I agree with Pascal about them, a two batch order process seems to fit all cases.

    Original bezel/crystal/chapter ring:


    Separated:


    Service bezel:

    (Sorry for the 'blow-up' poor quality)

    And 1450/809 bracelet/SELs:


    First time SELs were used in a mainstream Omega as well I believe.
    Last edited by andy_s; January 2nd, 2012 at 18:42.

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  5. #84
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    Re: Show me your 376.0822 Speedmaster!

    ....oh, and Mith321 - that is a beauty - it actually looks much better 'on' than in the catalogue / auction pictures, much more toned down and actually a very nice departure!
    Last edited by andy_s; January 2nd, 2012 at 18:42.

  6. #85
    Member Pascal S's Avatar
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    Re: Show me your 376.0822 Speedmaster!

    Quote Originally Posted by andy_s View Post
    First time SELs were used in a mainstream Omega as well I believe.
    Actually that honor goes to the ref. 1447 bracelet and its ref. 805 end links.


  7. #86
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    Re: Show me your 376.0822 Speedmaster!

    Out of interest, here is a comparison between a few other Lemania powered chronographs;


    (L-R: 1) Lemania SAAF in Omega derived case, 2) the Speed, 3) Sinn EZM1 in Heuer derived/inspired case)


    As for dial to watch size:


    The more conventionally bezeled Sinn is about 41mm, dial diameter of 30mm while the Omega is also 41mm but has about 33mm of dial diameter due to the narrower bezel, albeit a fixed tachymetre. The Lemania 'wins', if you will, with a 41mm size and 34mm dial plus a moveable bezel.
    mith321 likes this.

  8. #87
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    Re: Show me your 376.0822 Speedmaster!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pascal S View Post
    Actually that honor goes to the ref. 1447 bracelet and its ref. 805 end links.
    Ah - I thought that one was only used on a limited edition hence the caveat of 'mainstream', cheers - my only sparse knowledge came from Robert-Jans article here - Speedmaster bracelets, straps etc which doesn't include that one either. Good stuff Pascal, cheers.

  9. #88
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    Re: Show me your 376.0822 Speedmaster!

    Quote Originally Posted by andy_s View Post
    ....oh, and Mith321 - that is a beauty - it actually looks much better 'on' than in the catalogue / auction pictures, much more toned down and actually a very nice departure!
    I think so too, my fovourite is the SS but this variant is not bad at all -
    Last edited by mith321; January 3rd, 2012 at 01:00.

  10. #89
    Member Pascal S's Avatar
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    Re: Show me your 376.0822 Speedmaster!

    I hope you still have your all steel example as well as the Italian market TT. I know that at one point you were thinking about selling it...


  11. #90
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    Re: Show me your 376.0822 Speedmaster!

    Well....
    There are actually 3 different bezel inserts that are commonly
    seen.
    The one you don't mention is the one on Mith321's NOS SS example posted on page 3
    earlier in this thread and on MarkEg' watch that he "recently sold"
    And on mine and others I have pictures of.
    Look at the "7" in 70 and 75. No downpointing tail
    on horizontal part of the 7. Different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pascal S View Post
    I'm not at all convinced the accented bezel can be necessarily defined as a replacement part. The reason is that I've seen several of these watches in their fully original configuration, including my own example, with that particular bezel. In the case of my watch, it never benefited from any cosmetic care, so the bezel is the one it left Bienne with.

    My theory is that there has been two production batches for this part: an initial one (possibly of a thousand) without the accented character, and a second one with it. In the meantime, the watch turned out to be a bit of a flop on the market, so Omega got stuck with the remainder of the second production batch for future service needs. My personal guesstimate for the total number of these watches is that around 1,500 were made, and since the last 200 (the Italian market only version mith321 posted a picture of) got a specific solid gold bezel, that's another 200 bezel inserts freed up for future needs.

    So what we possibly have now is Omega taking advantage of a part it already had in its inventory, and that since the day production of this chronograph ended. Given their reluctance to make new parts according to the original specs, I certainly don't see them ordering a new batch of bezels if they didn't have them already.


    Finally, one last word regarding the bracelet: the 808 end pieces were those used on the regular Moonwatch, while the 809 were specific to the Grail. Once again, it appears that Omega doesn't have parts specific to this watch so owners who wish to track a ref. 1450 often have to use the 808 end pieces. Besides, according to Ofrei's website, the recommended replacement bracelet for the Grail is now ref. 1998-849.
    CCJ likes this.

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