Help me understand Tudor's association with Rolex + Differences between the two?
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  1. #1
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    Help me understand Tudor's association with Rolex + Differences between the two?

    Hi all,

    I have just recently purchased a Black Bay 58 and I love it! It is the best watch I have ever owned. I have a few questions about the Tudor brand, I have been trying to research this question but still have a few outstanding questions:-

    I understand Tudor is owned by Rolex (a subsidiary/sister company), but:-

    1. Is the movement in the Tudor Black Bay 58 essentially, for all intents and purposes, a 'Rolex' movement?
    2. Are they made in the same factory in Geneva?
    3. Do Tudor watches undergo the same level of craftsmanship/assembly in comparison to Rolex?
    4. For all Tudor models made with a in-house movement - is this in house movement essentially a Rolex in house movement?
    5. On comparison with Rolex's offerings, such as their Oyster Perpetual (fair comparison or not), why is it the OP's movement (being in the same case size) only offers a 48hr power reserve compared to the in house movement in the Black Bat 58 (MT5402) 70 hours? And it beats the Submariner's (maybe a fairer comparison) 48 hours? I find this component utterly confusing? In addition to the fact that they are ALL COSC certified?

    I'm here to learn - please help me understand the above. Especially regarding the movement!

    Many thanks

    Regards

    Dom

  2. #2
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    Re: Help me understand Tudor's association with Rolex + Differences between the two?

    Quote Originally Posted by DomTheOtter View Post
    Hi all,

    I have just recently purchased a Black Bay 58 and I love it! It is the best watch I have ever owned. I have a few questions about the Tudor brand, I have been trying to research this question but still have a few outstanding questions:-

    I understand Tudor is owned by Rolex (a subsidiary/sister company), but:-

    1. Is the movement in the Tudor Black Bay 58 essentially, for all intents and purposes, a 'Rolex' movement?
    It's not, but shares some design characteristics and material technology.
    2. Are they made in the same factory in Geneva?
    Rolex movements are made in Bienne. Tudor movements are made in (or near) Geneva, according to a few who've been on guided factory tours.
    3. Do Tudor watches undergo the same level of craftsmanship/assembly in comparison to Rolex?
    "Craftmanship" is too loose a term. Assembly - I'm sure they're put together using very similar operational processes. Tudor does not generally have a reputation for failure.
    4. For all Tudor models made with a in-house movement - is this in house movement essentially a Rolex in house movement?
    As above.
    5. On comparison with Rolex's offerings, such as their Oyster Perpetual (fair comparison or not), why is it the OP's movement (being in the same case size) only offers a 48hr power reserve compared to the in house movement in the Black Bat 58 (MT5402) 70 hours? And it beats the Submariner's (maybe a fairer comparison) 48 hours? I find this component utterly confusing? In addition to the fact that they are ALL COSC certified?
    That particular Rolex movement is an old one, and due to be upgraded soon; some folks think it would have happened this year, before 2020 was cancelled. Others in the professional and Oyster lines have been upgraded. However according to Rolex, even the older movements are adjusted to a greater level of accuracy (-2/+2) than the Tudors (-4/+6):

    https://www.ablogtowatch.com/rolex-e...n-house-tests/
    Last edited by One-Seventy; 3 Weeks Ago at 13:51.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by DomTheOtter View Post
    Hi all,

    I have just recently purchased a Black Bay 58 and I love it! It is the best watch I have ever owned. I have a few questions about the Tudor brand, I have been trying to research this question but still have a few outstanding questions:-

    I understand Tudor is owned by Rolex (a subsidiary/sister company), but:-

    1. Is the movement in the Tudor Black Bay 58 essentially, for all intents and purposes, a 'Rolex' movement?
    2. Are they made in the same factory in Geneva?
    3. Do Tudor watches undergo the same level of craftsmanship/assembly in comparison to Rolex?
    4. For all Tudor models made with a in-house movement - is this in house movement essentially a Rolex in house movement?
    5. On comparison with Rolex's offerings, such as their Oyster Perpetual (fair comparison or not), why is it the OP's movement (being in the same case size) only offers a 48hr power reserve compared to the in house movement in the Black Bat 58 (MT5402) 70 hours? And it beats the Submariner's (maybe a fairer comparison) 48 hours? I find this component utterly confusing? In addition to the fact that they are ALL COSC certified?

    I'm here to learn - please help me understand the above. Especially regarding the movement!

    Many thanks

    Regards

    Dom
    Not all Tudor watches are COSC certified; only those with the in-house movements, those with ETA movements are not. Tudor's accuracy on in-house movements is supposed to be -2/+4, ETA movements a little less. Tudor watches are assembled in the same room, using the same tools, by the same technicians as Rolex...their current production is setup to be interchangeable on the day. Not all Tudor movements are made by Tudor; obviously the in-house movements MT5612/MT5602/MT5402 are made by Tudor...with the MT5602 shared with Breitling in exchange for their B01 Chronograph movement that Tudor's MT5813 is based on. The MT5652 GMT movement is supposed to be in-house, but the way the date flaw is being handled makes you wonder if it's an outside movement. Tudor's in-house movements were developed by themselves, with the MT5612 (Pelagos/North Flag/BB Steel) taking five years to matriculate...Tudors are tested using the very same equipment as Rolex. Rolex is updating most of their watches to the new 70 hour power reserve standard; the Datejust/Sea Dweller/GMT already have...it would be expected that the Submariner/Explorer l/OP will follow. We would've already had the answer had Baselworld not cancelled, and now that Rolex & Tudor have withdrawn from Baselworld permanently to do their own thing...their timeline will be interesting. Tudor has upped their warranty to five years on all watches purchased after January 1st, as well as back dating an additional 18 months to all watches purchased between 1 Jul 2018 and 31 Dec 2019...this was done because of extensive data collection, initial quality, and service history they have across the brand...not to cover their ass on the GMT date flaw as some would allege. Tudor's most popular watches are the Black Bays, their best and most technically advanced is the Pelagos. You should be able to obtain most any Tudor you like rather easily, except for the BB58 and the BB GMT...they are in very high demand.

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    Re: Help me understand Tudor's association with Rolex + Differences between the two?

    For a short summary, consider them separate companies. Tudor has access to Rolex designs and the dna is obviously there; however, do not get the impression that Tudor is a Rolex that is cheaper because it is missing the brand name. That is simply false.


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    Re: Help me understand Tudor's association with Rolex + Differences between the two?

    Anyone got some popcorn handy


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    Re: Help me understand Tudor's association with Rolex + Differences between the two?

    As others have said, Tudor is a separate company now. It has ties to Rolex yes but it's not and will never be "essentially a Rolex." I have a BB58 and while yes it's a great watch and harkens to the old days, it doesn't really compare with Rolex. Power reserve isn't a huge deal as I'm sure people will take a 48h Rolex over a 70hr Tudor. Accuracy-wise, Rolex wins hands down.
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    Re: Help me understand Tudor's association with Rolex + Differences between the two?

    Quote Originally Posted by iTreelex View Post
    Accuracy-wise, Rolex wins hands down.
    My Black Bay Chronograph seems to be running at +0.3 SPD right now. I believe the in-house MT5813 (improved Breitling B01) is the best mechanism Tudor has at the moment, and is equally good if not better than any Rolex offerings.

    Besides, accuracy may just depend on how much time is invested it regulating the individual movements, not the quality of the movements themselves. That of course costs money, watchmaker time is costlier than the materials or assembly.

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    Re: Help me understand Tudor's association with Rolex + Differences between the two?

    Quote Originally Posted by GMT-man View Post
    My Black Bay Chronograph seems to be running at +0.3 SPD right now. I believe the in-house MT5813 (improved Breitling B01) is the best mechanism Tudor has at the moment, and is equally good if not better than any Rolex offerings.

    Besides, accuracy may just depend on how much time is invested it regulating the individual movements, not the quality of the movements themselves. That of course costs money, watchmaker time is costlier than the materials or assembly.
    Some very interesting replies in this - certainly KnightRider you are right, grab the popcorn, LOL.

    I do think that the chrono movement is really fantastic. You truly are getting a world class chrono movement for 4-6,500.00 USD. I will be picking up a couple of the chronos - a Steel & Gold, and the All Blacks, hopefully within the next few years.

    Yes. I do have 5 tudors already. So yes, I am biased.
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  10. #9
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    Re: Help me understand Tudor's association with Rolex + Differences between the two?

    [QUOTE=67ViP;51637039Tudor watches are assembled in the same room, using the same tools, by the same technicians as Rolex...their current production is setup to be interchangeable on the day. [/QUOTE]

    https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/tu...ure-visit-2017
    https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/articl...-watch-factory
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...c-dive-watches
    https://watchesbysjx.com/2019/01/cha...dor-rolex.html

    Per these published articles, Tudor movements are made in Geneva, or somewhere nearby, by Tudor in a facility they share with Kenissi, a company that Tudor has invested in along with Chanel. Kenissi makes the Calibre 1 movement for Chanel, which looks a lot like a Tudor MT movement.

    Rolex's movements are made in Bienne, which is around 160 km away.

  11. #10
    Member iTreelex's Avatar
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    Re: Help me understand Tudor's association with Rolex + Differences between the two?

    Quote Originally Posted by GMT-man View Post
    My Black Bay Chronograph seems to be running at +0.3 SPD right now. I believe the in-house MT5813 (improved Breitling B01) is the best mechanism Tudor has at the moment, and is equally good if not better than any Rolex offerings.

    Besides, accuracy may just depend on how much time is invested it regulating the individual movements, not the quality of the movements themselves. That of course costs money, watchmaker time is costlier than the materials or assembly.
    Tudor definitely has some great improvements with their movements lately no doubt- my BB58 is just as accurate as my sd4k- but I am talking about the standard as a whole, Rolex being +2/-2 and most others being COSC.
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