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  1. #101
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    Re: Tudor just teased a new sub for 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
    There's plenty of room in the market for a modern release of some long gone reference few have seen or remember with little commonality with a current Submariner.

    From a business perspective it works for Rolex and Tudor. It will put a dent in the homage market, and put the squeeze on all competing divers priced between Tudor and Rolex.

    For Tudor, they can cater to the vintage Wilsdorf diver aesthetic fans that want new rather than a beat to hell watch from nearly 30 years ago, and Rolex can focus on not making enough Submariners.
    I’m really not seeing how it’ll work for Tudor. The Sub moniker will only confirm in the eyes of many that Tudor is indeed the poor man’s Rolex, for those with no access or connections to be put onto an AD’s waitlist for the surely impossible to get new SubC, and a homage at best. You just implied that when you said that it’ll put a dent in the homage market. They might as well go all in and add the Mercedes hands, cyclops date window, Rolex logo on the crown like the some of the vintage Tudor Subs. They’ll literally trash all of the hard work they’ve done for the past several years stepping out of Rolex’s shadow to be thrown right back in.

    Don’t get me wrong - as a watch nerd, I would love to see this happen. But as a marketing and business professional, I have a hard time seeing how this would be beneficial in the long term.

    I am curious as to what this final watch will be, regardless of name. Surely they didn’t invest the R&D towards the BB58 for just that one product. My guess is that it’ll share the same movement and case as the BB58, with a different dial, hands, bezel.

    For Rolex though, I wonder if it’ll have any impact to resale value for current Sub owners? Unlikely, but time will tell how this plays out in two months and in the months/years to come.
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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by mav View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
    There's plenty of room in the market for a modern release of some long gone reference few have seen or remember with little commonality with a current Submariner.

    From a business perspective it works for Rolex and Tudor. It will put a dent in the homage market, and put the squeeze on all competing divers priced between Tudor and Rolex.

    For Tudor, they can cater to the vintage Wilsdorf diver aesthetic fans that want new rather than a beat to hell watch from nearly 30 years ago, and Rolex can focus on not making enough Submariners.
    I’m really not seeing how it’ll work for Tudor. The Sub moniker will only confirm in the eyes of many that Tudor is indeed the poor man’s Rolex, for those with no access or connections to be put onto an AD’s waitlist for the surely impossible to get new SubC, and a homage at best. You just implied that when you said that it’ll put a dent in the homage market. They might as well go all in and add the Mercedes hands, cyclops date window, Rolex logo on the crown like the some of the vintage Tudor Subs. They’ll literally trash all of the hard work they’ve done for the past several years stepping out of Rolex’s shadow to be thrown right back in.

    Don’t get me wrong - as a watch nerd, I would love to see this happen. But as a marketing and business professional, I have a hard time seeing how this would be beneficial in the long term.

    I am curious as to what this final watch will be, regardless of name. Surely they didn’t invest the R&D towards the BB58 for just that one product. My guess is that it’ll share the same movement and case as the BB58, with a different dial, hands, bezel.

    For Rolex though, I wonder if it’ll have any impact to resale value for current Sub owners? Unlikely, but time will tell how this plays out in two months and in the months/years to come.
    The Black Bay 41, GMT and 58 are already modern genetic descendants of long dead submariner references, and the world didn’t fall apart. They are in fact all successful.

    Whatever is released will likely be an extension of that product line, and will certainly be successful; to the benefit of customers, Rolex and Tudor.

  3. #103
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    Re: Tudor just teased a new sub for 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by mav View Post
    I’m really not seeing how it’ll work for Tudor. The Sub moniker will only confirm in the eyes of many that Tudor is indeed the poor man’s Rolex, for those with no access or connections to be put onto an AD’s waitlist for the surely impossible to get new SubC, and a homage at best. You just implied that when you said that it’ll put a dent in the homage market. They might as well go all in and add the Mercedes hands, cyclops date window, Rolex logo on the crown like the some of the vintage Tudor Subs. They’ll literally trash all of the hard work they’ve done for the past several years stepping out of Rolex’s shadow to be thrown right back in.

    Don’t get me wrong - as a watch nerd, I would love to see this happen. But as a marketing and business professional, I have a hard time seeing how this would be beneficial in the long term.

    I am curious as to what this final watch will be, regardless of name. Surely they didn’t invest the R&D towards the BB58 for just that one product. My guess is that it’ll share the same movement and case as the BB58, with a different dial, hands, bezel.

    For Rolex though, I wonder if it’ll have any impact to resale value for current Sub owners? Unlikely, but time will tell how this plays out in two months and in the months/years to come.
    I agree. While a Tudor Sub re-issue will be amazing for WIS, it doesn't make sense for the brand to release something with the same name from a marketing/business perspective. IMO that would take Tudor back to being the "poor man's Rolex" status, which they've worked hard in the past few years to move away from by re-establishing the brand.

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  5. #104
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    Re: Tudor just teased a new sub for 2019

    I believe it's highly unlikely that they'll use a Mercedes-style hour hand and the moniker "Submariner" for the reasons everyone else is mentioning (brand cannibalism, brand weakening, brand confusion, etc.). The Black Bay name is actually quite strong and is the family of all "heritage" divers from Tudor; therefore, it's highly likely that we'll see some sort of "Black Bay 84" or "Black Bay 89". Some transitional Tudor 94010 and 76100's from the early 1980's had "Lollipop" hour hands and the dials feature triangle markers for 3 (if no-date), 6, 9, and 12. With the cost of development of the new BB58 movement I bet Tudor is going to put it into a couple new models and several model variations. What would truly be mind-blowing is if they're able to do a version of the BB58 movement with a date and maintain the compact movement size.
    the.hatter likes this.

  6. #105
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    Re: Tudor just teased a new sub for 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by mav View Post
    From the major ADs that I deal with.
    Ok, so no reliable source.

    The ‘rumour’ I heard was problems with manufacturing the new movement in volume.

    I don’t know if that’s true either, but I seriously doubt that Tudor are throttling production.

  7. #106
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    Re: Tudor just teased a new sub for 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlance View Post
    I find it confusing that a lot of you are discussing the two brands like they’re working independent of one another. Almost like Tudor’s going to surprise Rolex with some new model they’re doing.
    Exactly. Tudor is wholly owned by Rolex's charitable foundation (Hans Wilsdorf). Both the Tudor CEO, Philippe Peverelli, and Rolex CEO, Jean-Frédéric Dufour are proteges of Jean-Claude Biver (Blancpain, Omega, Hublot, Tag Heuer, LVMH watches). These guys came over to Rolex's parent company within five years of each other and undoubtedly work in close coordination. They are both guided in long-term strategy by Rolex's parent company chairman, Bertrand Gros.

    Tudor and Rolex don't compete for now. They complement each other. But in the future Tudor could stand on its own.
    Last edited by cinealta; January 23rd, 2019 at 09:49.

  8. #107
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    Re: Tudor just teased a new sub for 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Day View Post
    Until 2010. And since then US can't get enough.
    That's when CEO Philippe Peverelli came aboard and relaunched the Heritage collection (Chrono, Black Bay, Ranger etc). He also introduced Pelagos AFAIK.
    Last edited by cinealta; January 23rd, 2019 at 09:50.

  9. #108
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    Re: Tudor just teased a new sub for 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatScott View Post
    It has been documented on here that in times of tight supply Tudor will outsource some production. Everything from cases to dials and bracelets. It has never even mentioned to use Rolex workers to the best of my knowledge.
    Tudor may outsource parts (movements etc) but they use Rolex watchmakers if needed, not third party people.

  10. #109
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    Re: Tudor just teased a new sub for 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by mav View Post
    Regarding the BB58, it only sold out because Tudor is artificially limiting it, taking a page out of Rolex's playbook.
    I find that unlikely. More likely they had production constraints.

    Quote Originally Posted by mav View Post
    From the major ADs that I deal with.
    I haven't found ADs to be a very reliable source of info.

  11. #110
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    Re: Tudor just teased a new sub for 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by LQ529 View Post
    The AD is that the with the letter F in their name and their original store on Pico Blvd.
    When did F become a Rolex AD?

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