Tudor Oysterdate Prince - Refurbishment Advice
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  1. #1
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    Tudor Oysterdate Prince - Refurbishment Advice

    Hi peeps,

    Have done some reading and hopefully will be able to get some further assistance from those of you who post here regularly.

    Probably a similar scenario as many, my father bought this watch for my mothers father in 1979.

    Sadly my grandfather passed away several years ago and the watch was passed to me.

    I dont know anything of the history when my grandfather was wearing it, only that he always wore it and was a fisherman.

    Since I have had the watch, it has been serviced at a store several years ago as the watch stopped self winding (Nottingham, England).

    As asked the watch repair guy if he could find a new crystal for the watch while it was being repaired.

    Unfortunately when I went to pick the watch up, the bezel had been damaged, the watch repair guy told me their was nothing he could do about it.

    So...... I decided to see if I could refurbish the watch myself and started to look for part, some which I have found (am waiting for an email to be returned to me to confirm that the parts are correct rafflesdials).

    A few things that hopefully I can get direct answer

    1/ Can someone suggest a good quality phosphorous make of paint I can buy to touch up the original phosphorous as you cant see anything on the watch face in the dark
    2/ Someone has badly damaged the watch back face i.e. I can only imagine one of my Uncles attempted to open the watch sometime in the past, without used the correct tool and they have destroyed some of the 'teeth' im hoping there is something I can do to restore these
    3/ Is their a possibility that the replacement crystal that the repair guy used diameter was too big hence damaging the bezel, I cannot find the same bezel anywhere. Im going to measure the crystal with a par of calipers to see its exact diameter and will post back.

    Images are below

    Appreciate any advice

    :P

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  2. #2
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    Re: Tudor Oysterdate Prince - Refurbishment Advice

    Ughhhh, I expected the forum to resize the images and I cant edit the last post.

    Is there a way to edit the post and edit the image size, I couldnt find the option to look at the source code so I could maybe implement that myself!

  3. #3
    Member svorkoetter's Avatar
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    Re: Tudor Oysterdate Prince - Refurbishment Advice

    Note that any dials from rafflestime that say "Tudor" or "Rolex" on them are counterfeit. You don't want to put one of those in a genuine Tudor.
    emgee79 likes this.
    Stefan Vorkoetter: Programmer, hobbyist, amateur watchmaker, pilot, and collector of fountain pens, slide rules, calculators, and watches.

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  5. #4
    Member Eingram141's Avatar
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    Re: Tudor Oysterdate Prince - Refurbishment Advice

    Hi. Welcome to the Watchuseek Forum. I am going to try to cover some basics to get you thinking about your decisions here as quickly as possible so other forums members can also help guide you and you can ask and answer the right questions. As for your questions, pardon my abruptness, but: 1/ Dont touch that dial, dont put anything on to try to relume it! 2/ Dont open the caseback, these is nothing good that can come of you getting in there. 3/ Crystals are available, dont go back to that watchmaker, they are not prepared to deal with vintage Tudors correctly.

    Ok now please let me elaborate a bit. Great news! you have an AWESOME classic Tudor watch that is in fantastic shape. I know it doesnt glow, it runs poorly, the crystal is scratched/unclear and the case is beat up BUT considering the watch is 40 years old and has spent a lot of time around water, it could have been a LOT worse, this is a winner! Ok this is going to be tough to hear but these watches are most valuable in original condition! Re-luming the dial (applying glowing paint so it glows in the dark again) or polishing the scratches off change the watch very slightly (seemingly for the better) but those two things will cut the watch's value in HALF. Who cares because you arent trying to sell it right? But will those two things make the watch THAT much better? At the end of the day you should try to live with those two flaws in order to retain maybe $1000 in value, IMO.
    Ok So here are probably your best options:
    1. (Cheapest option) Get the movement serviced- Take the watch to a watchmaker who is trained to work on Rolex Tudor watches. Your tudor's movement should be easily serviced and will be running great after that. might cost $500 and they can also clean up the case and crystal? You are back in business with a great vintage watch. You can put it on a nato strap (19mm) if that bracelet is too rough. You will need to source a bezel though as that bezel holds the crystal in place. search ebay I am sure you can find a reasonable one within a few weeks. The crystal can be polished, you can even try yourself by rubbing a small amount of toothpaste over the top in a circular motion with your finger a few times then wiping it off with a dry towel. Everything stays original and your watch value stays intact.
    2. You take it to Rolex and tell them to service it. They will tell you the watch needs movement service, new dial, hands, crown, bracelet, crystal. They will do it and it will have cost probably $2,000 and your watches value will still be about $2,000 because it no longer original (This is a waste because your dial is great, if your dial was rusted and gross this would be a good option). Now you have a very expensive restored tudor that is not original vintage and will no longer really be your grandfather's same watch.
    3. Do option 1, Then take the money from option 2 and buy a great used 2010s Tudor Date that is only a few years old! Your Grandfather's watch stays original, inner wokrings maintained, and safely in your possession. And you buy a watch that is the new updated version you can wear everyday, it will run great, be waterproof, and glow in the dark.

    Obviously its your watch and your life (so do what you want), but one of the beautiful things about it is its story and how well it has lasted. You can always decide later to start adding paint to the dial, but you cant undo that once its been done. I think, and I am sure everyone who responds will agree, leave it original- you wont regret it!
    IAvictorinox likes this.

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    Member DonLuis's Avatar
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    Tudor Oysterdate Prince - Refurbishment Advice

    Good advice. You have a beautiful dial and black dialed prince tudors are not that common.
    Please don’t self-refurbish. It’s quite valuable even the bracelet has good value.

    I think you are un UK there are plenty of good watchmakers over there.

    The bezel CAN be repaired by experienced laser welders like watch works in LA USA.

    The one thing you can safely do is lightly polish the glass with a rag and polo wash is about $8
    Last edited by DonLuis; April 15th, 2020 at 05:52.

  7. #6
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    Re: Tudor Oysterdate Prince - Refurbishment Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by svorkoetter View Post
    Note that any dials from rafflestime that say "Tudor" or "Rolex" on them are counterfeit. You don't want to put one of those in a genuine Tudor.
    Hi!

    Thanks for clarifying this, just to confirm as you only mentioned the dials, there is a possibility that other items sold on the website that are Tudor are also fake ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eingram141 View Post
    Hi. Welcome to the Watchuseek Forum.
    Hi! Thank you :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eingram141 View Post
    I am going to try to cover some basics to get you thinking about your decisions here as quickly as possible so other forums members can also help guide you and you can ask and answer the right questions. As for your questions, pardon my abruptness, but:
    1/ Dont touch that dial, dont put anything on to try to relume it!
    2/ Dont open the caseback, these is nothing good that can come of you getting in there.
    3/ Crystals are available, dont go back to that watchmaker, they are not prepared to deal with vintage Tudors correctly.
    No need for pardoning, I prefer to hear facts rather than what I may want to hear :P

    Unfortunately I touched one of the watch hands and after seeing how fragile the lume was I stopped, it was so fragile that most of what was left on the hour hand fell through so more touching the watch hands!

    I don't have the tools for getting in the case back and even if I did, it seems others had done a good job on totally chewing through the teeth!

    Regards the crystals, will be posting some more pictures as I found the original crystal and things I had forgotten are returning to me! Somehow the original crystal got partially melted, have no idea how that happened, probably the reason that bezel got damaged. I know that my grandfather was wearing the watch when he was knocked off his motorbike but I don't think that the damage was from that.

    As to the watch maker, I think I remember that I went to one of the Rolex dealers in Nottingham, but as a 22 year old student at the time I did not have the money they were asking for to refurbish the watch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eingram141 View Post
    Ok now please let me elaborate a bit. Great news! you have an AWESOME classic Tudor watch that is in fantastic shape. I know it doesn't glow, it runs poorly, the crystal is scratched/unclear and the case is beat up BUT considering the watch is 40 years old and has spent a lot of time around water, it could have been a LOT worse, this is a winner! Ok this is going to be tough to hear but these watches are most valuable in original condition! Re-luming the dial (applying glowing paint so it glows in the dark again) or polishing the scratches off change the watch very slightly (seemingly for the better) but those two things will cut the watch's value in HALF. Who cares because you arent trying to sell it right? But will those two things make the watch THAT much better? At the end of the day you should try to live with those two flaws in order to retain maybe $1000 in value, IMO.
    Ok So here are probably your best options:
    Thats great to hear, I had already understood that any alterations to the watch would effect its value and as you have correctly asserted to im not going to be selling it. But I would like to source the following original parts if possible

    1/ The piece of metal on the bracelet that covers the lugs, the part that has the number '361' imprinted on it. The bracelet in my possession only has one, the other is not part of the original bracelet (I will talk more about the bracelet later on).
    2/ An original crystal
    3/ If possible original watch hands

    Again, the cost of these replacement parts would determine if I could do this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eingram141 View Post
    1. (Cheapest option) Get the movement serviced- Take the watch to a watchmaker who is trained to work on Rolex Tudor watches. Your tudor's movement should be easily serviced and will be running great after that. might cost $500 and they can also clean up the case and crystal? You are back in business with a great vintage watch. You can put it on a nato strap (19mm) if that bracelet is too rough. You will need to source a bezel though as that bezel holds the crystal in place. search ebay I am sure you can find a reasonable one within a few weeks. The crystal can be polished, you can even try yourself by rubbing a small amount of toothpaste over the top in a circular motion with your finger a few times then wiping it off with a dry towel. Everything stays original and your watch value stays intact.
    2. You take it to Rolex and tell them to service it. They will tell you the watch needs movement service, new dial, hands, crown, bracelet, crystal. They will do it and it will have cost probably $2,000 and your watches value will still be about $2,000 because it no longer original (This is a waste because your dial is great, if your dial was rusted and gross this would be a good option). Now you have a very expensive restored tudor that is not original vintage and will no longer really be your grandfather's same watch.
    3. Do option 1, Then take the money from option 2 and buy a great used 2010s Tudor Date that is only a few years old! Your Grandfather's watch stays original, inner wokrings maintained, and safely in your possession. And you buy a watch that is the new updated version you can wear everyday, it will run great, be waterproof, and glow in the dark.
    From your suggestion above im considering the following.

    Purchasing non original replacement items for the crystal, bezel and bracelet which I can replace myself while keeping the originals. Then if sometime in the future I have the wealth to source the original parts I can do that. In this way I can use the watch on special occasions and see the time in the dark :)

    Will keep my eye on eBay, hopefully a similar bezel will appear at some point!

    It was 1998 when I first took the watch to the jeweller and than a year later I took it for a service (see pics). I had totally forgotten about the state of the original crystal!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eingram141 View Post
    Obviously its your watch and your life (so do what you want), but one of the beautiful things about it is its story and how well it has lasted. You can always decide later to start adding paint to the dial, but you cant undo that once its been done. I think, and I am sure everyone who responds will agree, leave it original- you wont regret it!
    Hi! Thank you for adding you advice, ive now understood that im not to touch the watch hands and dial and to leave these as is.

    As long as I am extremely careful in changing out the original parts I hope it will be OK, have many many years of experience of taking things apart from a very young age, from watches to electronics etc etc.


    Quote Originally Posted by DonLuis View Post
    Good advice. You have a beautiful dial and black dialed prince tudors are not that common.
    Please don’t self-refurbish. It’s quite valuable even the bracelet has good value.

    I think you are un UK there are plenty of good watchmakers over there.

    The bezel CAN be repaired by experienced laser welders like watch works in LA USA.

    The one thing you can safely do is lightly polish the glass with a rag and polo wash is about $8
    Hi! If I was still living in the UK, than it would be alot easier to find a reputable watchmaker to undertake the repairs, but I no longer live in the UK and in my country of residence (Republic of Cyprus) I would find it very difficult to trust a watch maker to do a good job at a fair price. Id much rather prefer to purchase the tools required and refurbish the watch myself!

    Good to hear that the bezel can be repaired, will hold out for a little while to see if anything appears on eBay.....

    As mentioned, the original crystal is in no state for repair.

    Now regarding the bracelet, pictures I have found on the Internet of other 9061/01 shows bracelets that have a bigger clasp, i.e. the width of my clasp is 13mm where the others are +15mm. So um unsure if the bracelet I have in my possession is the original (I have no reasoning to believe it isnt, but I simply dont have the experience to know...).

    Also the bracelet on the watch when it was given to me was not the original Rolex but a replacement, im guessing my Grandfather found the original bracelet to be too thin for his liking.












  8. #7
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    Re: Tudor Oysterdate Prince - Refurbishment Advice

    So someone from raffles got back to me.

    They informed me that the hands they are selling are for Tudor Prince Oysterdate with ETA 2824 movement but I dont know what the ETA is for this watch and from what I have read the back case would need to be opened.



    They also made it clear that they were not sure if the bezels or crystals would fit correctly so I will be sending them the pictures I have posted in this thread.

    If anyone is interested to see the hand motions ive linked to youtube below

    youtu.be/-DuGUTMc7Ao


  9. #8
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    Re: Tudor Oysterdate Prince - Refurbishment Advice

    Please accept my apologies, I did not mean to be patronizing.

    The metal bracelet ends are known as End Links, "361" is the part number for those endlinks and that specifies them to be 19mm wide between the lugs and specifically for that size Oyster Prince case. Though aftermarket endlinks are widely available in 19mm for oyster bracelets on ebay/amazon for cheap, real ones may take some time and searching to find.

    For a crystal, I have to yield that one to other forum members. I dont know the reference/part number for your crystal or where to look for them. But a genuine crystal is recommended here, just normal humidity can affect the paint on the dial, even while sitting in a drawer for years.

    Hands will probably be difficult to source. A good option would be, when you are ready to have the watch gone through, there are shops like the above mentioned LA Watch Works that can do the work and also re-lume the hands with an "aged" looking lume paint that will still look old and match the lume shade on the dial. As opposed to having a bright white lume on hands in an old watch. I know I said reluming hurts value, and its not ideal, but its a close second place option to sourcing another hand set, or having the original lume in your hands flaking off into the watch.

    Your bracelet's is a 7835 19 and looks all legit except for the one endlink you mentioned. 13mm at the clasp sounds about right to me. You may see other 7835 bracelets with different clasps because Tudor produced that bracelet for many years but for some watches may have used a different clasp and some later decades would have switched to a Tudor Shield clasp, but your Rolex crown clasps is original and definitely more rare than the Tudor Shield clasp. Most crown clasps on Tudors get replaced during more recent services.

    Hope this helps. Take care

  10. #9
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    Re: Tudor Oysterdate Prince - Refurbishment Advice

    Some very interesting comments.

    Now, when the original poster says he lives in the UK, why in the world would anybody suggest a Los Angeles, California, USA based watch repair facility? Really, LA Watch Works for someone in the UK?

    For all of the apparent attributes of this watch, if one were to scour ebay or any of the common online watch vendors, it would be glaringly clear that one can get a pre-owned version of this watch for well under $1500 US (let someone else do the British pound conversion). This is a fine watch, but advice to DON'T CHANGE A THING OR THE VALUE WILL PLUMET!!! is kind of misplaced in real world economics. Even under the best of circumstances, the value of a pre-owned Tudor Prince Date isn't going to be that high anyway. If the original poster wants to keep the watch intact because of the family legacy that's one thing, but to threaten depleted value for even something as simple as a dial swap or hand replacement...goodness, save that draconian advice for a vintage Rolex Sub or Daytona or GMT, not a readily available, mainstream Tudor Date.

    As for the bezel issue, a real or aftermarket replacement can be sourced and that will solve that issue. Or an eventual trip to the UK Rolex facility would probably result in an offer to replace that engine turned bezel with factory original. Again, you take a watch that only has so much market value, you're not going to tank the value by replacing a vital component.

    The bracelet can be refurbished in Hong Kong by Michael Young...there are lots of references on the forum on how to get in touch. Or, any Rolex or Tudor 19mm oyster bracelet will fit just fine, as will an aftermarket version (won't be quite as spiffy as factory OEM, but it will do the job and almost nobody will notice).

    What to do with the watch depends on what the owner is trying to accomplish. Simply a family legacy piece and wear it as Grandpa would? Make it like new? Refurb only selected aspects of the watch? It can all be done. It's just a function of money and time.

    Just accept the fact there are options and don't buy into the hype this is some kind of rare timepiece that needs to be treated as a museum treasure or forever relegated to the chamber of disgraced watches because of component replacements.

  11. #10
    Member DonLuis's Avatar
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    Re: Tudor Oysterdate Prince - Refurbishment Advice

    Kawika there are many points of view a Tudor collector will strongly disagree with you.

    We owns the watch and can do what he wishes to it.

    If he wants to proceed with his plans please buy a cheap 2824 eta vintage watch on eBay and practice, before doing anything to the watch.

    ...
    OP if you need it serviced and relumed PM me.

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