Tudor Sub Question

Thread: Tudor Sub Question

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  1. #1
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    Tudor Sub Question

    Hello,
    I am new to the forum and pretty new to the watch scene. I am on the hunt for a snowflake or a snowflake project. I am curious if someone and dissect the following watch for me:
    The ad:

    The 40mm case on this Tudor Prince Oysterdate Submariner has an unknown but potentially very exciting history. This watch, which potentially has military provenance, was purchased at auction from a Canadian corporation. There is speculative evidence that would lend credibility to the narrative but it is difficult to prove. Research has shown that the Canadian Navy was known to engrave in haphazard manner military markings for a brief period of time. The case is manually engraved with the number 20323 where the original serial would have been. The reference number 94010 is faint but visible. At times military markings were performed at the local level, by the stores master, and frequently were terribly crude. If one searches Military Watch Research Forum there are a couple examples of similar markings and stories of this type of rough numeration. While we are not claiming as fact that this watch is a milsub, we are offering indications of that exciting possibility for the future owner to pursue investigating further, if they wish.

    The case shows some scratches and tiny dings, and the caseback shows some signs of wear. The correct Rolex coronet signed crown with triplock indication screws into the crown tube smoothly. This example of the 79090 features an extremely clean snowflake dial, without any noticeable blemishes or discoloration. Please note we have attached an image of the dial and handset and lume pip in complete darkness, and under infrared (IR) lighting. While the lume on the dial does not glow, we do believe that it is possible that they have been relumed, which is also consistent for military watches, as they were tools, they needed to be functionally bright during their service life.

    The Tudor-signed ETA self-winding caliber 2824-2 movement is in great running condition with the date advancing correctly. The inside caseback is stamped 9411, as is correct. The aftermarket plexiglass crystal is in brand new condition

    The watch:
    Attached Images Attached Images






  2. #2
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    Re: Tudor Sub Question

    Buying these things is a minefield. I dont know enough about them to comment but there are people on this forum that certainly do and im sure theyll be along shortly. Im only warning to check out the seller as much as the watch. Theres a lot of fraud surrounding these and bezels, cases can be aged easily. The story of the crude engraving could equally be chinese engraving. They are churning out Rolex by the ton for £20 so ageing a watch, putting it on a nato with a back story and selling it for thousands is very tempting. Thats one end of the scale. The other end could be its a franken made up of genuine parts. Best of luck.

  3. #3
    Member Dogbert_is_fat's Avatar
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    Re: Tudor Sub Question

    Firstly, welcome to the forum.

    There were 10 photos but you only posted three, none of the case back? Would also have bene good if in future you can crop the picture to a more manageable size. To address you questions;

    1) I may be wrong but I have not seen a Tudor dial with the snowflake indices not supplied with snowflake hands. Most Mercedes hands come with triangle 12, 3, 6, 9 and round hour indices. Someone who is an expert may tell me I am wrong.

    2) As much as you're curious, I am also curious about the ad. To me, the ad has so many red flags, namely;
    a. Statements like "This watch, which potentially has military provenance, was purchased at auction from a Canadian corporation. There is speculative evidence that would lend credibility to the narrative but it is difficult to prove." tells me that this may not be true at all.
    b. "While we are not claiming as fact that this watch is a milsub, we are offering indications of that exciting possibility..." almost a disclaimer for buyers beware.
    c. "This example of the 79090 features an extremely clean snowflake dial, without any noticeable blemishes or discoloration." -- but the watch is claimed to be a 94010???
    d. The inside caseback is stamped 9411, as is correct. The aftermarket plexiglass crystal is in brand new condition. -- so, not original at all.

    The seller calls this the Oyster Date Submariner which it is not and has three different reference numbers for one watch

    Unless someone who is more in the know can chime in, I would walk away. By the way, you didn't say how much this is?

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  5. #4
    Member Dogbert_is_fat's Avatar
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    Re: Tudor Sub Question

    wonderful dp.

  6. #5
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    Re: Tudor Sub Question

    Quote Originally Posted by thx67 View Post
    Buying these things is a minefield. I dont know enough about them to comment but there are people on this forum that certainly do and im sure theyll be along shortly. Im only warning to check out the seller as much as the watch. Theres a lot of fraud surrounding these and bezels, cases can be aged easily. The story of the crude engraving could equally be chinese engraving. They are churning out Rolex by the ton for £20 so ageing a watch, putting it on a nato with a back story and selling it for thousands is very tempting. Thats one end of the scale. The other end could be its a franken made up of genuine parts. Best of luck.
    It is a minefield. I have looked at quite a few of them and there always seems to be a story or the watch has sold.

  7. #6
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    Re: Tudor Sub Question

    Anyone want to pick this apart:
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  8. #7
    Moderator Jason71's Avatar
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    Re: Tudor Sub Question

    Quote Originally Posted by ianl931 View Post
    Anyone want to pick this apart:
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    Main thing I see is what appears to be a protruding lug pin at 7 O’Clock and a fairly thin lug at 2 O’clock. Mid-case health is fairly important to me. My gut tells me it is authentic, but I wouldn’t touch it with a 10-foot pole based on significant over-polishing.
    Best Regards,
    Jason




  9. #8
    Member Dogbert_is_fat's Avatar
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    Re: Tudor Sub Question

    Hi OP,
    I think that it is a good time to take a step back and lay out your criteria and/or objective in looking for a Tudor Snowflake or Snowflake project as you call it. Are you looking for a cheap watch to work on and bring it up to sellable standard? Or you just want to get your hands on any Snowflake watch?

    One would have thought to get educated in all things that is important with collectors before jumping head in into a minefield of older (near vintage) watches. You might get burned (financially) as well as end up with a lemon of a watch.

    Instead of posting one watch after another; why don't you hang around and learn from some of the more experienced people on the forum, interact with them and see what attracts people to a watch. I have spent lots of time observing and reading up about Rolex watches since I joined WUS - all thanks to the many wonderful people on this Rolex/Tudor thread. You could benefit too. Just my 2c.

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