Question about minute/second hand alignment and photos of Ball Trainmaster 60 Seconds
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  1. #1
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    Question Question about minute/second hand alignment and photos of Ball Trainmaster 60 Seconds

    Hi -- I just bought this watch retail, and enjoying having it. A nice feature is the blue flash the ordinarily black looking hands give when the light hits them just right. As engineer, I'm also attracted to the precise markings on the outer edge of the face and the legible hour markers.

    You may notice from the photos that the minute hand does not fall exactly on the minute marker when the second hand touches 12. The minute hand falls about 40% short -- see the close up. I'm not sure it's actually going to bug me, but I am wondering if this is something easily adjusted. My other mechanical watch doesn't have enough markings for me to notice whether this is typical. The jeweler was very nice, but it would be a long drive to go back (Seattle to Edmonds).

    Also this will be the first time I've worn a metal bracelet since I was a kid. The jeweler helped adjust it for my wrist but even using the half link we couldn't seem to get the size exactly perfect. I opted for barely too tight because the alternative was the watch riding up on my hand. Does anyone have any experience with this? As I understand it, wrists change size throughout the day anyway. Is there such thing as a 1/4 sized link?
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  2. #2
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    Re: Question about minute/second hand alignment and photos of Ball Trainmaster 60 Seconds

    Quote Originally Posted by seattle_guy View Post
    You may notice from the photos that the minute hand does not fall exactly on the minute marker when the second hand touches 12. The minute hand falls about 40% short -- see the close up. I'm not sure it's actually going to bug me, but I am wondering if this is something easily adjusted.

    Also this will be the first time I've worn a metal bracelet since I was a kid. The jeweler helped adjust it for my wrist but even using the half link we couldn't seem to get the size exactly perfect. I opted for barely too tight because the alternative was the watch riding up on my hand. Does anyone have any experience with this? As I understand it, wrists change size throughout the day anyway. Is there such thing as a 1/4 sized link?
    This is a setting problem. You need to set the minute hand dead on the mark with the second hand at 12.

    Two half links is SLIGHTLY larger than 1 full link, giving you a bit more adjustment, and it's amazing what a difference it can make. Also, which side of the buckle you put them on can make a difference to, with generally more on the 12:00 side being preferable.
    seattle_guy likes this.

  3. #3
    Ball Watch, Bremont and Longines moderator samanator's Avatar
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    Re: Question about minute/second hand alignment and photos of Ball Trainmaster 60 Seconds

    Quote Originally Posted by ~tc~ View Post
    This is a setting problem. You need to set the minute hand dead on the mark with the second hand at 12.

    Two half links is SLIGHTLY larger than 1 full link, giving you a bit more adjustment, and it's amazing what a difference it can make. Also, which side of the buckle you put them on can make a difference to, with generally more on the 12:00 side being preferable.
    What he said. You need to hack the watch at 12 and insure the minute hand is dead on the mark. So actually getting this correct is pretty much on you.

    Sorry there is not a 1/4 link. I generally change my watch's sizing two or three times when when I am sizing for it on bracelet (across two or three days)to arrive at a happy medium throughout the day. I try to start loose first and then reel it in some. Trainmasters are relatively light so you should be able to keep it looser on the wrist and still keep it from moving around. EHC I generally start a bit tighter since there is far more weight to manage. If you still have issues then I would suggest a strap possibly with a deployant clasp.
    Last edited by samanator; June 28th, 2014 at 17:46.
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    Re: Question about minute/second hand alignment and photos of Ball Trainmaster 60 Seconds

    Thank you tc and samanator! That sets me at ease. I'll try the two-half link trick, as the watch is now just tight enough to be distracting. I'm guessing that any watch store would be able to make that adjustment?

  6. #5
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    Re: Question about minute/second hand alignment and photos of Ball Trainmaster 60 Seconds

    Quote Originally Posted by seattle_guy View Post
    Thank you tc and samanator! That sets me at ease. I'll try the two-half link trick, as the watch is now just tight enough to be distracting. I'm guessing that any watch store would be able to make that adjustment?
    It's really quite easy to do yourself. First, a good screwdriver is really helpful. I played around with "jeweler's" screwdriver sets found at hardware stores and ended up getting some Wiha drivers from Amazon. For the Trainmaster bracelet, a 1mm slot screwdriver works well. A slightly larger one may even be a better fit although I know 1.5mm is too large. I've read that heating the bracelet softens the Loctite a jeweler or manufacturer may have used to keep the screws from gradually loosening. I run the bracelet under hot water for a while, dry it off, get a good grip and have never had an issue getting a screw out.

    Wiha 96010 Slotted Screwdriver with Precision Handle, 1.0 x 40mm

    Wiha 96010 Slotted Screwdriver with Precision Handle, 1.0 x 40mm - Flat Head Screwdrivers - Amazon.com

    After adjusting, I've not used Loctite myself (although I have some 222) but check the screws from time to time to make sure none have loosened. The standard advice you will see hear is to adjust your bracelet so you can slip your little finger of the other hand between the bracelet and your wrist. I tend to have mine slightly tighter than that--especially on a heavier watch as Samanator notes.

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    Re: Question about minute/second hand alignment and photos of Ball Trainmaster 60 Seconds

    Thank you gtuck. It turns out I had almost the right tool. I misspoke earlier -- in the slightly-too-tight configuration there was one half link installed. Today I tried installing another half link, which got me to slightly-too-loose (riding up on my hand). Then I tried replacing both half links (which should really be called 2/3 links?) with one full link, leaving me at ever-so-slightly-too-tight. So maybe replacing two full links with three half links (if I had them) would fit perfectly, though I suspect my wrist would be a different size the next day anyway.

    Upon reading this thread (and the concern about the second/minute hand alignment) it seems I'm coming across as a bit of a perfectionist.

    Anyway, here are some more photos.
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    Re: Question about minute/second hand alignment and photos of Ball Trainmaster 60 Seconds

    I would recommend wearing it in a certain configuration for a day or two and seeing how it does "on average".

  9. #8
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    Re: Question about minute/second hand alignment and photos of Ball Trainmaster 60 Seconds

    Quote Originally Posted by ~tc~ View Post
    I would recommend wearing it in a certain configuration for a day or two and seeing how it does "on average".
    Agree! Mine is slightly tight in the early morning and then again in afternoon. And of course when it's hot. I figure that if it's slightly tight but not uncomfortable when my wrist is swollen, then that's the best I can do. I don't find traditional leather bands any better.

    BTW, great pics!

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    Re: Question about minute/second hand alignment and photos of Ball Trainmaster 60 Seconds

    Quote Originally Posted by seattle_guy View Post
    ...Upon reading this thread (and the concern about the second/minute hand alignment) it seems I'm coming across as a bit of a perfectionist.

    Anyway, here are some more photos...

    Maybe, maybe not!

    The advice everyone has given you is very good. But watch makers are not perfect. I once had a UN where the hands were misaligned. When the minute hand was dead at 12, the hour hand was past the 12 o'clock position enough to be really, really visible.

    UN argued and argued with me about it, saying I was wrong (I hope their CS has gotten better since then). I finally could not stand it and sent it on in expecting to be charged a princely sum for it.

    It came back quickly and perfect. No charge. No arguing with me that it needed servicing.

    Just really check to make sure everything is aligned.

    Offered FWIW,

    Dan
    Last edited by D N Ravenna; June 30th, 2014 at 02:46.
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  11. #10
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    Re: Question about minute/second hand alignment and photos of Ball Trainmaster 60 Seconds

    An update on the minute hand problem: I got it (nearly) dead on following the advice offered here. Maybe it's a fraction of a cat's whisker of a Planck's constant of a degree off now, but I'll leave it since I have to mess it up again to advance the date on July 1 (but not between 10PM and 2AM, when the watch turns into a pumpkin according to the manual). I can still hear my mother saying "30 days have September, April, June, and November...."

    I'll try to get a photo at exactly 12 noon in case anyone reading this thread years later is worried about a problem like this.

    So that's something I didn't know about watches yesterday: the second hand's relationship to the minute hand is different from the minute hand's relationship to the hour hand. Though everything is driven by the same tick, the second hand's position is not mechanically synchronized to the minute hand, unlike the minute hand's connection to the hour hand. I guess this makes sense ... otherwise you couldn't set a watch without the second hand spinning around really fast. Now I'll have to check to see whether my quartz watches work the same way.

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