New Sinn 556i running +15 seconds?
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  1. #1
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    New Sinn 556i running +15 seconds?

    Got my Sinn 556i about three days ago and the first 24 hrs it was running +7, which wasn't real great to me considering it has a Top Grade 2824-2 movement.

    Thought it would slow down and settle in time, but the last two days it has jumped up to +15 a day, which, if kept up, is unacceptable to me.

    I have a couple of cheap Invictas that run better then that, a Tissot with an unregulated standard grade 2826-2 running +9, a Tag Aquaracer WAN 2111 with a elabore grade Selita SW200 running +2 seconds, and finally two Citizen Signatures Grand Classics one running -1 a day and the other +2 for 14 days (total).

    What's everyone else's experience with the accuracy of this movement, and did anyone have to send it in to be regulated?

    Really love the watch, but a movement with mediocre accuracy is a turn off.

    P.S. The watch hasn't been around any magnetic fields and at night is resting right next to my Tag, which is faithfully running at +2
    Last edited by CombatMarine; September 24th, 2013 at 20:41.

  2. #2
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    Re: New Sinn 556i running +15 seconds?

    Watchbuys are the absolute best!

    I emailed the Sinn North American dealer, Watchbuys today about the problem, here is their response which came back to me in less then 2 hours!

    Charles,

    You do not want to slow it down - the movement has just begun the process of breaking in.

    The Tissot and Tag Heuer watches to which you refer are retail store brands that have typically been broken in by the time they have passed through the distributor and retailer to you. On these two brands, the time from the factory to the end consumer averages four to nine months depending upon the model and how long the watch sits at the distributor and then the retailer.

    We are the Sinn distributor, and our Sinn watches come directly from Sinn to us and then to you (no retail stores, no display models, no sitting on the shelf watches). So your new watch is absolutely fresh, sometimes within days of being produced.

    For this reason, you are the first person to run the movement on a regular basis, and the break-in period on a brand new movement is approximately 12 weeks.

    Only after that time has passed can you estimate the timekeeping and the most accurate test is using a Vibragraph. Absent that machine, the watch should be timed using a 7 day testing cycle with average deviation as discussed below:

    WatchBuys Client Services :: How can I test the timekeeping of my mechanical watch?



    Finally, the grade of a movement does not on its own determine the overall accuracy. A base grade movement can keep better time than a Top Grade movement - it's all in the regulation and how the movement settles after the break in period.

    The advantages of a Top Grade movement are primarily in the types of parts that are used, the materials used to make those parts, Glucydur balance wheel, Incabloc shock absorption, Nivarox pallet lever and escape wheels and the number of positions used in testing. Sinn is not required to use Top Grade nor do they advertise as such in any of their marketing, but they feel it is the right thing to do.

    Which leads me to a question for you - is it really true that Tag Heuer and Tissot are not using Top Grade on all watches? If so, this is very disappointing given the prices they charge and the fact that a smaller brand like Sinn insists on doing so and for much less money. I had assumed that most of the national retail store brands would insist on Top Grade, leaving base grade and elabore for the less expensive brands (i.e. Invicta, Hamilton).

    The movement can always be regulated down the road but we strongly recommend against doing so until the break in period is completed and the watch is tested on a Vibragraph. COSC standards would be -4/+6 per day so you would certainly not want to regulate a watch within these standards. The regulation reference point for a Top Grade movement is a maximum positional variation of 15 seconds per day.

    If after the break in period the watch is more than +/-105 seconds over a seven day period, yes adjustment would be under warranty. I don't expect that you will see this variation however once the movement settles, and if you do, we would first investigate magnetism before suggesting a regulation. I cannot recall a Sinn 556 watch needing regulation after the break in period.

    Thank you and please let me know if I may answer additional questions.

    Rob
    WatchBuys


    P.S. On Rob's comments about the Tag and Tissot movements, I checked out my Tissot PRC200 auto, looking at it under a loupe, and much to my shock, (I had never looked that closely at it) it is a ETA 2836-2 "Top Grade" 5 regulating postions, blue screws and all!
    Last edited by CombatMarine; September 24th, 2013 at 21:54.
    richnyc likes this.

  3. #3
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    Re: New Sinn 556i running +15 seconds?

    My Sinn 856 was running about +7 sec and it has now had a few months break in and i realized it was running at least +12 sec per day now. I am keeping an eye on it to see if it settles down or gets faster. The issue is that Sinn specs are up to +15sec per day... so unless it goes past that ...not much you can do. This was the second Sinn I had and to be honest.. it is this reason i will not purchase another sinn.

    Quote Originally Posted by CombatMarine View Post
    Watchbuys are the absolute best!

    I emailed the Sinn North American dealer, Watchbuys today about the problem, here is their response which came back to me in less then 2 hours!

    Charles,

    You do not want to slow it down - the movement has just begun the process of breaking in.

    The Tissot and Tag Heuer watches to which you refer are retail store brands that have typically been broken in by the time they have passed through the distributor and retailer to you. On these two brands, the time from the factory to the end consumer averages four to nine months depending upon the model and how long the watch sits at the distributor and then the retailer.

    We are the Sinn distributor, and our Sinn watches come directly from Sinn to us and then to you (no retail stores, no display models, no sitting on the shelf watches). So your new watch is absolutely fresh, sometimes within days of being produced.

    For this reason, you are the first person to run the movement on a regular basis, and the break-in period on a brand new movement is approximately 12 weeks.

    Only after that time has passed can you estimate the timekeeping and the most accurate test is using a Vibragraph. Absent that machine, the watch should be timed using a 7 day testing cycle with average deviation as discussed below:

    WatchBuys Client Services :: How can I test the timekeeping of my mechanical watch?



    Finally, the grade of a movement does not on its own determine the overall accuracy. A base grade movement can keep better time than a Top Grade movement - it's all in the regulation and how the movement settles after the break in period.

    The advantages of a Top Grade movement are primarily in the types of parts that are used, the materials used to make those parts, Glucydur balance wheel, Incabloc shock absorption, Nivarox pallet lever and escape wheels and the number of positions used in testing. Sinn is not required to use Top Grade nor do they advertise as such in any of their marketing, but they feel it is the right thing to do.

    Which leads me to a question for you - is it really true that Tag Heuer and Tissot are not using Top Grade on all watches? If so, this is very disappointing given the prices they charge and the fact that a smaller brand like Sinn insists on doing so and for much less money. I had assumed that most of the national retail store brands would insist on Top Grade, leaving base grade and elabore for the less expensive brands (i.e. Invicta, Hamilton).

    The movement can always be regulated down the road but we strongly recommend against doing so until the break in period is completed and the watch is tested on a Vibragraph. COSC standards would be -4/+6 per day so you would certainly not want to regulate a watch within these standards. The regulation reference point for a Top Grade movement is a maximum positional variation of 15 seconds per day.

    If after the break in period the watch is more than +/-105 seconds over a seven day period, yes adjustment would be under warranty. I don't expect that you will see this variation however once the movement settles, and if you do, we would first investigate magnetism before suggesting a regulation. I cannot recall a Sinn 556 watch needing regulation after the break in period.

    Thank you and please let me know if I may answer additional questions.

    Rob
    WatchBuys

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  5. #4
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    Re: New Sinn 556i running +15 seconds?

    Quote Originally Posted by mark1958 View Post
    My Sinn 856 was running about +7 sec and it has now had a few months break in and i realized it was running at least +12 sec per day now. I am keeping an eye on it to see if it settles down or gets faster. The issue is that Sinn specs are up to +15sec per day... so unless it goes past that ...not much you can do. This was the second Sinn I had and to be honest.. it is this reason i will not purchase another sinn.
    Well, you could always take it to a competent watchmaker and have it regulated. I plan on doing that with my Tissot, or I just may attempt to regulate it myself.
    Last edited by CombatMarine; September 25th, 2013 at 01:00.

  6. #5
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    Re: New Sinn 556i running +15 seconds?

    Even though the grade of the movement doesn't have much to do with the time keeping accuracy I think +15s/day is a bit disappointing for a watch in this bracket.
    My previous 656's were about +5-6s/day.
    All but one of my Damasko's have all been within COSC specs.

    But yeah it might be cheaper to get a local watchmaker to regulate it rather then send it back and get it done under warranty...
    Current collection: Tudor BB 36 |MKII Hawkinge| Seiko SARB017 | Seiko SARB035 | Seiko SBDC053| Seiko SBDC059|Seiko SBDC061| Stowa Antea KS
    wishlist Tudor BB 58| Omega PO | GS Quartz GMT | Sinn 856 UTC | Sinn EZM3F| Omega AT38

  7. #6
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    Re: New Sinn 556i running +15 seconds?

    What's good about it? I will be shocked the daily error of a Top Grade movement reduced from +15s/d to +3s/d after so called "break in". But one thing is true, you will not be able to return it after 3 days, and well before so called "break in".



    Quote Originally Posted by CombatMarine View Post
    Watchbuys are the absolute best!

    I emailed the Sinn North American dealer, Watchbuys today about the problem, here is their response which came back to me in less then 2 hours!

    Charles,

    You do not want to slow it down - the movement has just begun the process of breaking in.

    The Tissot and Tag Heuer watches to which you refer are retail store brands that have typically been broken in by the time they have passed through the distributor and retailer to you. On these two brands, the time from the factory to the end consumer averages four to nine months depending upon the model and how long the watch sits at the distributor and then the retailer.

    We are the Sinn distributor, and our Sinn watches come directly from Sinn to us and then to you (no retail stores, no display models, no sitting on the shelf watches). So your new watch is absolutely fresh, sometimes within days of being produced.

    For this reason, you are the first person to run the movement on a regular basis, and the break-in period on a brand new movement is approximately 12 weeks.

    Only after that time has passed can you estimate the timekeeping and the most accurate test is using a Vibragraph. Absent that machine, the watch should be timed using a 7 day testing cycle with average deviation as discussed below:

    WatchBuys Client Services :: How can I test the timekeeping of my mechanical watch?



    Finally, the grade of a movement does not on its own determine the overall accuracy. A base grade movement can keep better time than a Top Grade movement - it's all in the regulation and how the movement settles after the break in period.

    The advantages of a Top Grade movement are primarily in the types of parts that are used, the materials used to make those parts, Glucydur balance wheel, Incabloc shock absorption, Nivarox pallet lever and escape wheels and the number of positions used in testing. Sinn is not required to use Top Grade nor do they advertise as such in any of their marketing, but they feel it is the right thing to do.

    Which leads me to a question for you - is it really true that Tag Heuer and Tissot are not using Top Grade on all watches? If so, this is very disappointing given the prices they charge and the fact that a smaller brand like Sinn insists on doing so and for much less money. I had assumed that most of the national retail store brands would insist on Top Grade, leaving base grade and elabore for the less expensive brands (i.e. Invicta, Hamilton).

    The movement can always be regulated down the road but we strongly recommend against doing so until the break in period is completed and the watch is tested on a Vibragraph. COSC standards would be -4/+6 per day so you would certainly not want to regulate a watch within these standards. The regulation reference point for a Top Grade movement is a maximum positional variation of 15 seconds per day.

    If after the break in period the watch is more than +/-105 seconds over a seven day period, yes adjustment would be under warranty. I don't expect that you will see this variation however once the movement settles, and if you do, we would first investigate magnetism before suggesting a regulation. I cannot recall a Sinn 556 watch needing regulation after the break in period.

    Thank you and please let me know if I may answer additional questions.

    Rob
    WatchBuys


    P.S. On Rob's comments about the Tag and Tissot movements, I checked out my Tissot PRC200 auto, looking at it under a loupe, and much to my shock, (I had never looked that closely at it) it is a ETA 2836-2 "Top Grade" 5 regulating postions, blue screws and all!

  8. #7
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    Re: New Sinn 556i running +15 seconds?

    In reviewing Robs email to me, his explanation of why other brands of watches will run better because they are "broken in" from sitting for nine months at a distributor or retailer, now seems in retrospect, a little bit of "Spin"!

    These are mechanical watches, if they are sitting in a warehouse or under a display case in a box, just how are they getting broken in if no one is wearing them or winding them???

    My watch came in a little better today, it was only +9 seconds a day, which is still unacceptable for me, I think with this movement should be running at least +5 or less.
    Kurt Koerfgen likes this.

  9. #8
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    Re: New Sinn 556i running +15 seconds?

    My 556 took several months to settle in, I think at the end, it run a little fast, depending on position at night (crown up fast, dial up slow).
    I gave it to a Sinn due of another issue (scratches on the AR coat, so I asked to polish the AR off) and they finetuned the movement.

    Since it's running PERFECT, about 1-2 secs fast a day.
    The 2824-2 is a really rugged movement ant the TOP is identical to the COSC, but without certificate.
    But any watchmaker can set it up for you.

    Regards
    surfer

  10. #9
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    Re: New Sinn 556i running +15 seconds?

    Quote Originally Posted by spsurfer View Post
    My 556 took several months to settle in, I think at the end, it run a little fast, depending on position at night (crown up fast, dial up slow).
    I gave it to a Sinn due of another issue (scratches on the AR coat, so I asked to polish the AR off) and they finetuned the movement.
    Every watch / movement will behave just slightly differently too - my 556 will slow down if I rest it crown-up overnight. Though mine came to me used and has a slight mark on the bezel, so at some point it was banged around a bit. Still, I don't obsess over it. +10 or so is fine for me, I very rarely wear the same watch 2 days in a row. Once they're off, I let them run to a stop. Wind 'em before I wear 'em.

  11. #10
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    Re: New Sinn 556i running +15 seconds?

    I have found this thread instructive. I've purchased two brand new Sinn's recently, a 103 Ti Testaf and an 857 UTC Testaf. The 103 has been running about +9 seconds/day, the 857 as much as +15, but I have only had it two weeks. I had already adopted a wait and see attitude, but now I have a better idea what to wait for and for how long.

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