Peculiar issue with Sinn 356
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  1. #1
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    Peculiar issue with Sinn 356

    Iíve noticed an interesting issue with my brand new 356 and am wondering what others think. The chronograph second hand stutters pretty visibly.

    But when I hold or lay the watch with the crown up parallel with the horizon, it sweeps perfectly smoothly.

    Do you think this is normal or an issue with the movement/construction?

    If it is an issue, what is the name of the part that needs to be serviced or fixed? The watch has the Sellita SW500 movement in it.




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    Re: Peculiar issue with Sinn 356

    Are you able to make a quick video?

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    Re: Peculiar issue with Sinn 356

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruno28 View Post
    Are you able to make a quick video?

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    I canít post video because of my relatively new account.




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    Re: Peculiar issue with Sinn 356

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinner_666 View Post
    I canít post video because of my relatively new account.




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    Upload to YouTube and attach a link to it on the post.

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    Re: Peculiar issue with Sinn 356

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinner_666 View Post
    I’ve noticed an interesting issue with my brand new 356 and am wondering what others think. The chronograph second hand stutters pretty visibly.

    But when I hold or lay the watch with the crown up parallel with the horizon, it sweeps perfectly smoothly.

    Do you think this is normal or an issue with the movement/construction?

    If it is an issue, what is the name of the part that needs to be serviced or fixed? The watch has the Sellita SW500 movement in it.




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    Hi, I've had two of my V7750-based Sinn watches (one 358 and one 756) with the same issue and I had it corrected by Sinn at the next service - one luckily was under warranty.
    The point is too low friction in the chrono works - typically, the oil they use is too pure and it does not create enough attrition so the central chrono hand stutters. This is (or at least was for my own cases) the root cause and they were able to fix it.
    Hope this helps.
    Fabrizio
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  7. #6
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    Re: Peculiar issue with Sinn 356

    Quote Originally Posted by watchhunter72 View Post
    Hi, I've had two of my V7750-based Sinn watches (one 358 and one 756) with the same issue and I had it corrected by Sinn at the next service - one luckily was under warranty.
    The point is too low friction in the chrono works - typically, the oil they use is too pure and it does not create enough attrition so the central chrono hand stutters. This is (or at least was for my own cases) the root cause and they were able to fix it.
    Hope this helps.
    Fabrizio
    Sinn uses the same Moebius oils as everyone else for the most part, and the friction of the chronograph seconds counting wheel is not controlled by the oils used, so using oil that is "too pure" (whatever that means) will not affect the regularity of the movement of the chronograph seconds counting wheel.

    There are two areas that can cause irregular movement of the chronograph hand. One is the adjustment of the oscillating pinion, which is the small pinion that drives the chronograph seconds recording wheel - it moves in to engage with the wheel when you start the chronograph and moves out when the chronograph has stopped. This video shows the operation of the oscillating pinion - at the red arrow you will see a small gear move as I press the start/stop pusher:



    The depth of engagement between the teeth of the oscillating pinion and seconds recording wheel has a particular setting that has to be maintained, and if the engagement is not correct it can cause the stuttering in some circumstances.

    The second, and more likely scenario in my experience, is the condition of the friction spring for the chronograph seconds recording wheel - that is the part at the red arrow here:



    The white part is a plastic section and that is mounted to a thin piece of spring steel. If this part is bent it may not be providing enough friction.

    The problem with inadequate friction is more easily illustrated with a different movement, in this case an Omega Speedmaster movement (Cal. 1866, so the same as the 1861 but with Moonphase complication). The video shows that with the friction spring installed, the movement of the chronograph wheel on the left is smooth as it's being driven by the wheel on the right. But when you remove the friction spring, you can see that the chronograph wheel on the left is now far more erratic.



    The chronograph seconds recording wheel is actually thrown forward at times, and a gap opens up between teeth that causes the hand to stop moving until the drive wheel catches up and starts it moving again. This can be very pronounced when seen out at the end of a relatively long hand. The friction spring puts a slight amount of drag on the chronograph seconds recording wheel, and that drag keeps the teeth of both wheels in constant engagement, and therefore provides smooth ticking of the hand.

    A difference in lubrication is simply not enough to cause this sort of erratic behavior, so whoever told you this was the problem was probably incorrectly relaying information, and not likely someone with direct knowledge of the problem or how it is repaired.

    Cheers, Al
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    Re: Peculiar issue with Sinn 356

    Thank you all for your responses. I have been slammed with work/life and haven't had the chance to upload a YouTube video.

    But Archer's response makes perfect sense to me. I should also mention that I spoke with WatchBuys and a local watch repair shop with both telling me that the stutter was normal as the chronograph movement is secondary to the function of the watch or some other garbage response. I understand that the chronograph second hand will not sweep as smoothly as a non-chronograph movement but still, the stutter is pretty visible.

    Archer, if you don't mind me asking, what is the best course of action to remedy this problem? The watch is brand new and under warranty for another 23 months.

  9. #8
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    Re: Peculiar issue with Sinn 356

    Thank you Al for the comprehensive explanation. I shall not mention who it was who said that to me, because it would embarass him as he's definitely someone expected to know this stuff very well...
    Kind regards,
    Fabrizio

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    Re: Peculiar issue with Sinn 356

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinner_666 View Post
    Thank you all for your responses. I have been slammed with work/life and haven't had the chance to upload a YouTube video.

    But Archer's response makes perfect sense to me. I should also mention that I spoke with WatchBuys and a local watch repair shop with both telling me that the stutter was normal as the chronograph movement is secondary to the function of the watch or some other garbage response. I understand that the chronograph second hand will not sweep as smoothly as a non-chronograph movement but still, the stutter is pretty visible.

    Archer, if you don't mind me asking, what is the best course of action to remedy this problem? The watch is brand new and under warranty for another 23 months.
    Well, I can't tell you how to deal with the claim that this is "normal" as it certainly is not normal, so that reasoning in nonsense. Not terribly surprised at this though, so if you email Sinn directly ([email protected]), describe the problem and maybe send a link to a video, and ask them to tell you if it's normal, their response may be helpful in getting the vendor to honour the warranty and fix the problem as they should.

    I would also consider not giving the local guy anything complicated, as they don't seem to understand how this system works well.

    From a purely technical standpoint, if this watch was given to me to troubleshoot I would look at the engagement of the oscillating pinion first - I say this because it can be adjusted without any major disassembly of the movement - just open the case back and remove the rotor so it's not in the way, and the engagement can be adjusted per ETA's specs as shown here:



    If the problem can't be solved by this adjustment, then really the friction spring needs to be looked at, and to do that more of the movement has to be disassembled, so the movement would have to come out of the case, hand removed at a minimum, then removal of the bridge automatic bridge, so the chronograph seconds recording wheel can be removed, and the spring inspected and adjusted (or replaced - they are not expensive).

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers, Al
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  11. #10
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    Re: Peculiar issue with Sinn 356

    Thanks, AI! Will keep this in mind when I prepare to send it in for warranty work.


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