Help on Zenith pocket movement

Thread: Help on Zenith pocket movement

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  1. #1
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    Help on Zenith pocket movement

    Hi.
    I need some help identifying this pocket watch.
    It's around 27mm diameter (I guess that's 12''')
    I'll try to replace the winding stem and plexi, but I need some movement number to find spares.
    I did already search on the Ranfft page, but could not find any 12''' with that escape wheel cock.
    Serial seems 2398961 (although that last 1 is a bit weird).
    Any help will be really appreciated.
    Thanks a lot in advance.

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  2. #2
    Zenith Forum Co-moderator
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    Re: Help on Zenith pocket movement

    Welcome to Watchuseek! The watch is 27mm in diameter?! "Never!" is what I'd say. I suspect you mean that the movement is 27mm. In that case, you should be aware of the fact that in older movements, there is a hidden "lip" on the dial side which makes it bigger than it appears. I suspect it's a Cal. 13''' N.V.S.I. The serial number dates it to 1919.

    Why did they put such a tiny movement into so large a watch? It might be an "opera watch", a slim, elegant pocket watch for wear with evening dress. However, the general style speaks against that (no gold case, decorated case, etc.). I therefore suspect that, being made just after the war when the watch industry as well as everyone else was in the dumps, they just used old stock movements on the basis of "waste not, want not", thereby taking less risk in stocking up on parts they might not end up being able to use.

    Hartmut Richter
    Last edited by Hartmut Richter; November 22nd, 2019 at 23:22. Reason: Editing out all the typos!

  3. #3
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    Re: Help on Zenith pocket movement

    Hi.
    Thank you vey much, Hartmut.
    Right, I meant the movent is 27mm. For the visible part, since, as you said there's probably that lip behind. It's a pity that both screws ar broken and I can't disassemble it yet.
    And you're right, too, about the style. Despite it could have been a good watch, that part of my family was probably not wearing or using expensive stuff.
    I'll dig a bit to see if I can find a winding stem. Balance is working fine, and that's a relief.
    Thank you very much for your help.
    Regards.
    Gabriel.

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  5. #4
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    Re: Help on Zenith pocket movement

    It seems as if only one of the screws is bust, not both - and both hold the movement holder ring and not the movement. The movement itself is held by another two screws so that, once these are released, you should be able to get the thing out (and leave the case with the movement holder ring attached.

    Why do you need a winding stem? If the crown is there, I presume that the winding stem is also there (and functional). Or did you mean the bow (the ring around the crown which attaches the pocket watch to a watch chain)? For that, you need to approach a jeweller rather than a watchmaker and he'll bend a silver stem into the right shape and attach it.

    Hartmut Richter

  6. #5
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    Re: Help on Zenith pocket movement

    Well, both screws are broken. The one that looks fine has its head loose just lying in the right place. I will try to release the other two and see how it goes.

    I'm not yet sure that I actually need a winding stem. I have to check (I just had a quick look). It appeared to be broken, since it lacks the cylindrical tip. Although I've seen some that just end with the square section.
    Besides, there's a strange behaviour: when pressing the crown a bit the movement will start working. Otherwise it stops. That makes me think that the stem is either broken or not properly placed.
    We will see then about the plexi.

    Thanks a lot for your help.

    Regards.
    Gabriel.

  7. #6
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    Re: Help on Zenith pocket movement

    As Hartmut correctly predicted, there's no stem damage.
    Here's the problem.
    I don't know the proper name. Setting lever?
    I'm afraid it's not going to be easy to find.
    Any suggestion will be really appreciated.
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  8. #7
    Zenith Forum Co-moderator
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    Re: Help on Zenith pocket movement

    Hmmmmm. I am not sure what that bust piece does but I suspect it's a spring for the return bar. Which means that if you remove the broken off piece and reassemble it all, it should probably all work. Only that the winding stem will have a tendency to easily come out, leading to unwanted and unnoticed setting of the time. It looks like the sort of piece that is more easily copied using the right sort of tools but even thgen, a fixing job will probably not be easy if you can't get an original Zenith replacement.

    Hartmut Richter

  9. #8
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    Re: Help on Zenith pocket movement

    Right. That's the spring of the setting lever.
    Either broken or removed, it works, but the stem won't work properly on the winding system because the yoke is loose. Sometimes it will wind, sometimes it will move the hands.
    Luckily the stem will not come out, because it has one of those retaining systems with a resort on the case (damn, I miss all proper names!!!).
    No luck finding a spare, or a cheap watch to dissassemble, although I found some pics of a soldering solution (not nice, but probably effective) here:
    (Gee, I'm not allowed to paste URLs...)
    OK, it's at the watchguy webpage, by serching "Birch & Gaydon Land & Water 2163 Calibre Zenith 13 NVSI"
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    The spring is actually a different version because of the lèpine-savonette leftToright variations.
    So, it's even more difficult to find, because most of the 13''' I've seen are wrist movements.
    Anyway, I'm having fun learning a lot.
    Thank you very much, Hartmut.
    Regards.
    Gabriel

  10. #9
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    Re: Help on Zenith pocket movement

    You could always try somewhere like here:

    Zenith watch parts

    ...where, for the older Cal. 13''', it states "email with requests". Good luck.

    Hartmut Richter

  11. #10
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    Re: Help on Zenith pocket movement

    Yes, I did approach them.
    They actually have several versions of the part for different calibres.
    It seems one of them may fit my watch.
    I'll see if there's something else I may order there.
    Thanks a lot, Hartmut.
    Regards.
    Gabriel

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