A MATTER FOR THE ACADEMIC HOROLOGIST AMONG YOU TO BE AWARE OF: Doxa Sub ETA 2824 Vs. ETA 2892
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    A MATTER FOR THE ACADEMIC HOROLOGIST AMONG YOU TO BE AWARE OF: Doxa Sub ETA 2824 Vs. ETA 2892

    I have been a Swiss movement wrist watch collector for over 35 years. It started at the age of 12 with a Jaeger Le Coultre 18k Club 1950s model as a present from my grandparents. From there it propelled into a fascination and in the 80s I studied the different Swiss watch houses and the movements they used. I have an edition of Time in Gold that is no longer in print, showing the movements used for the fine watch houses. I have owned three Patek Philippe Nautilus at different times which was designed by Gerald Genta who was a watch case designer of sports watches for AP Royal Oak and VC Overseas as well. Just like Bertone and Pininfarina designed cars for Maserati, Ferrari, Lancia, Lamborghini and De Tomaso. I have also collected Blancpain, Breguet, Franck Muller, Ulysse Nardin and others. The movements are the engines and the most complicated ones being spilt-second chronograph Rattrapante minute repeater perpetual calendars that have taken up to 3 years to produce. The IWC Il Destriero Scafusia as shown by clicking http://www.watchtime.com/watch-datab...fusia/red-gold begins to unveil the complication and by adding a Tourbillon movement supercharges it as in Audemars Piguet Tourbillon Minute Repeater Chronograph as shown by clicking Audemars Piguet Tourbillon Minute Repeater Chronograph - YouTube . I can go on and on to the point Ulysse Nardin genius complications Ulysse Nardin - Masterpiece Collection [HD] - YouTube This does opens a universe that I was exposed to 30 years ago and blew my mind away! So, does the dollar price tags as the range is well into six and in some cases seven figures today!

    The nearest I got to that level was a full hunter 18k pocket watch in the late 1800s that was a minute repeater perpetual calendar split second chronograph with a full Albert chain. The porcelain dial and hands were intricate. There was a cover plate over the movement and one could with their finger nail pop that open and et Voila, there was an Aladdin’s cave of escapement, ebauche and train with wolf teeth. Seeing the four bridges with rubies subtly placed was fabulous! One could spend at least 2 hours looking at the movement work with a loupe to the eye trying to figure out how all of this was put together. I would manually set the time to 11:59 p.m. to watch the perpetual calendar go to a day, December 31, year to change to next day January 1st, into the leap year. Then I would set the watch in that leap year to the same time on February 28th to see it change automatically to February 29th and from there same time to change to March 1st followed by setting the time to 12:58 when to changes to 12:59 then depress the slide so it would chime out the 12 strikes in low frequency, 3 quarters in double frequency in unison and then 14 chimes in high frequency so that in the dark you would know what time it was. While I was doing this as a Party Piece, I would look at what the movement was doing at these stages.

    Now back to Earth, so with all this in mind I have to consider the engines in our watches etc. Doxa have been putting ETA 2824 movement in their regular models since 2002, apart from the 1500T & 5000Ts which have the better ETA 2892 movements. Although they have both the higher grade 25 jewel versions, the 2824 movements are harder to regulate and maintain within COSC tolerances. So the quality of movement in my 5000T COSC and 1500Ts better than the 800ti, 750T COSC & 1000T COSC. If you Google search these are the best articles that give you an insight.

    ETA 2824 vs 2892

    ETA 2824-2 Versus 2892-A2 . . . Practical Comparisons - Watch Freeks

    ETA Automatic Movements ? ETA 2824 and ETA 2892 | Watch Review

    Both 300T-Graphs and 600T-Graphs have the 37 Jewel ETA 2894 movements (found in watches priced well over $5,000) that are so much more refined than the Valjoux 7750. So, I am delighted.

    Here is a caliber guide to increase one’s education.

    The Wristwatch Guide: WATCH MOVEMENTS

    For those of you who have inwardly digested this comprehensive lesson - you are now dangerous! I have an exam for you to take to get your certificate of completion of this course. The first question is..... does it make a difference to the quality of the movement if it rains on Thursday? Here is another question..... is the price of cheese affected if you choose to buy a Swiss wrist watch with an ETA 21 jewel or a 25 jewel movement? Now you are ready to answer the next question..... In Monty Pythons film "Now for something completely different" based on your answer to the other two questions, was the parrot dead or alive? When answering this question which is a 50/50 multiple choice one, please give a 1000 word essay explaining your reason then hypothesize about the Flying/Leaping Nuns in that film so that you can follow through and relate it to the contents inside a ping-pong ball. Here is the part as to whether you pass or fail this test....... If you have not LOL'd at this point, nothing frickin' well will!

    Class is dismissed: that ends today’s lesson – thank you
    Last edited by mondrayuk; June 20th, 2013 at 08:08.
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    Re: A MATTER FOR THE ACADEMIC HOROLOGIST AMONG YOU TO BE AWARE OF: Doxa Sub ETA 2824 Vs. ETA 2892

    Quote Originally Posted by mondrayuk View Post

    Now back to Earth, so with all this in mind I have to consider the engines in our watches etc. Doxa have been putting ETA 2824 movement in their regular models since 2002, apart from the 1500T & 5000Ts which have the better ETA 2892 movements. Although they have both the higher grade 25 jewel versions, the 2824 movements are harder to regulate and maintain within COSC tolerances. So the quality of movement in my 5000T COSC and 1500Ts better than the 800ti, 750T COSC & 1000T COSC.

    Class is dismissed: that ends today’s lesson – thank you
    Thank you for the lesson!!
    But I have a quick question: How does the ETA 2897 in 4000T compare to ETA 2892 in 5000T?

    Michael
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    Re: A MATTER FOR THE ACADEMIC HOROLOGIST AMONG YOU TO BE AWARE OF: Doxa Sub ETA 2824 Vs. ETA 2892

    The 2897 is built using the platform of the 2892 in the same way as the 2894 are for the T-Graphs post 2002. So in essence there is a caliber then it is modified to add the power reserve function. You can do the same and add a GMT function. Sometimes there is a sandwich of two movements but not in Doxa's case.

    I had a Breitling Montbrilliant 1461 and that had two platforms sandwiches together. The chronograph 7750 movement added to the four year moonphase calendar movement so that every 1461 days one had to manually set it from February 28th to 29th for the leap year. The teeth that intertwine both movements were not a tight fit, there were gear slips with maximum friction and that was a problem right there. The sandwiching of the two movements is like the LT5 motor of the Corvette ZR1 from 1990 to 1994 where there was a Lotus design engine 32 valve part on top of the standard LT1 motor.

    So the ETA 2897 has the better quality movement as its platform and the power reserve becomes an add on complication in its favor - so, keep that in mind for decision making as to whether to get one.
    Last edited by mondrayuk; June 20th, 2013 at 07:39.

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    Re: A MATTER FOR THE ACADEMIC HOROLOGIST AMONG YOU TO BE AWARE OF: Doxa Sub ETA 2824 Vs. ETA 2892

    Thanks for this excellent post mondrayuk.

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    Re: A MATTER FOR THE ACADEMIC HOROLOGIST AMONG YOU TO BE AWARE OF: Doxa Sub ETA 2824 Vs. ETA 2892

    Quote Originally Posted by mondrayuk View Post
    So the ETA 2897 has the better quality movement as its platform and the power reserve becomes an add on complication in its favor - so, keep that in mind for decision making as to whether to get one.
    I got the movement already in my beautiful 4000T Pro Sapphire Bezel. I was just curious how the movement stacks up against the other movement.
    Anyway thanks for your elaborate answer and for your great educational post.

    Michael
    IGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The world is my oyster and I like the taste of it!

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    Re: A MATTER FOR THE ACADEMIC HOROLOGIST AMONG YOU TO BE AWARE OF: Doxa Sub ETA 2824 Vs. ETA 2892

    No worries and very happy the share the wealth! Horology is an art that has become more obscure and it is hard to find good watchmakers. No much of current generation going into it for economic reasons

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    Re: A MATTER FOR THE ACADEMIC HOROLOGIST AMONG YOU TO BE AWARE OF: Doxa Sub ETA 2824 Vs. ETA 2892

    Michael - have a movement that is as good as it gets for a bog standard engine and there is nothing wrong with that. Why re-invent The Wheel when a modified one is just as good and does the job very nicely?!

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    Re: A MATTER FOR THE ACADEMIC HOROLOGIST AMONG YOU TO BE AWARE OF: Doxa Sub ETA 2824 Vs. ETA 2892

    Has anyone yet determined whether ETA (Swatch Group) is even still supplying movements to Doxa or have they had to switch to Sellita or Soprod? Many long-term customer watch companies have been cut off from supply over the last year or so.

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    Re: A MATTER FOR THE ACADEMIC HOROLOGIST AMONG YOU TO BE AWARE OF: Doxa Sub ETA 2824 Vs. ETA 2892

    I have asked this question to Doxa and they said that at the moment they have ETA movements but cannot get the COSCs ones anymore because they are not part of The Swatch Group. I wonder how long that will continue and I cannot shine anymore light on that.

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    Re: A MATTER FOR THE ACADEMIC HOROLOGIST AMONG YOU TO BE AWARE OF: Doxa Sub ETA 2824 Vs. ETA 2892

    I am frankly surprised to hear that. Other small, independent customers like Chronoswiss and Sinn are having to begin to phase into Sellita as ETA allocations dwindle. Each year moving forward, allocation will continue to dwindle (including Nivarox-FAR assortments to other movement manufacturers) with each year from 2010 production numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by mondrayuk View Post
    I have asked this question to Doxa and they said that at the moment they have ETA movements but cannot get the COSCs ones anymore because they are not part of The Swatch Group. I wonder how long that will continue and I cannot shine anymore light on that.

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