Watch Prices?

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  1. #1

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    Watch Prices?

    New to the watch forum , but been following it for a while. I wanted to post and get some feed back on the Doxa forum to get idea of what the doxaholics this about swiss watch pricing in general.

    I have been reading on other watch forums and I have read both sides of the story. Some say its over price and some say you pay for what you get. I recently place my order for a SR t-graph at the sale price. Which in my mind is a steal for what other watch company are charging or it might be the AD over charging for the watch. I don't really know, It maybe where I live in Canada.

    To give the forum members an idea what I have come up against, with out any type bargining just asking the price of a watch this is what I have seen.

    Omega SMP Chrono 2225.80.00 $4200
    Omega PO Chrono 2210.51.00 $7000
    Breitling SO Chrono SS $6000
    Oris Diver Titan Chrono $2800
    Rado Original Chrono $4700

    Plus a bunch of other brands of watches from Tag, Chopard, Ebel and so forth. All were quite more expensive. I know some had to do with it been chronometer ceritfied and some using some extensive and expensive movements whether it beening and ETA or Valjox movemet and so on. But in my mind..(ask the wife, I have been looking for quite a few years) as much as it is alot of money for a watch (to the average joe, I know there are some with an extensive watch collection that this would a drop in a hat for them. but for me it has been a long time saving for this watch and some.) I would like to think it was a great deal.

    I would love some feedback from the forum members, because I know that Doxa at times have been an unappreciate watch for some times unless you are a watch nut like me or a serious watch collector.

    I hope I am not out of context on this posting. If I am I apoligize in advance. Thanks

  2. #2
    Member T Bone's Avatar
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    Re: Watch Prices?

    In the greater scheme of Swiss watches, Doxa is a fairly small, but very "notable" (noticeable?) company. The SUB series is iconic, niche oriented, and there really is no substitute or equivalent.

    At the current available pricing, they are a bargain IMHO, heads and shoulders above many of the boutique brands in value. This value is what drew me to purchase multiple examples some years back. I felt they were a bargain at the then selling price.

    Omega? A huge company that is part of a gigantic conglomerate. Their list prices are paid by some. But they can be had at a substantial discount, which IMHO is the only reasonable way to buy such an AD oriented line (as with many others). But this is JMHO. Others may disagree on that. We really need to focus on Doxa here and now, and I'd say the majority here agree that they are currently quite the bargain.
    Regards, T Bone.

    ______________________
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    DOXA Forum and Sales Corner Moderator

  3. #3
    Member Doug507's Avatar
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    Re: Watch Prices?

    I'll probably get turbo-flamed for this statement, but there is no logical reason to spend more than $50 for a watch. That'll buy you a watch that will do whatever you need it to do.

    Sooo, by my thinking , anything beyond that is a matter of "want," and not "need." Almost every watch mentioned on every one of these forums is overpriced, but many many many of them are on my "want" list, and I have spent the money to get some of them.

    I think this is a hobby where you simply decide if you want a watch enough to pay what it'll take to get it. For me, every watch on my list below passed that test and is a keeper.
    " Don't trust anyone who says they're too good for an SKX007 and claims to be a WIS" - A Pine Tree

    Watches: Rolex GMT Master II 16760,
    Rolex Submariner 14060M, Doxa 750T Sharkhunter, Doxa 1200T Professional, Marathon SS Navigator (1992 Kuwait), Seiko SRP777, Seiko SKA427P1, Seiko SKX007, Garmin Fenix 5, Suunto Core and countless G-Shocks

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  5. #4
    Member E8ArmyDiver's Avatar
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    Re: Watch Prices?

    This is a subject that I have been contemplating recently.If you think about this logically,ie:based on the amount of raw materials & labor that go into the construction of a mechanical watch,then you generally come to the conclusion that there must be a VERY good profit margin built into the prices off ALL watch brands.But it's not just watches that suffer from this problem.EVERY item sold on this planet that is NOT considered a life sustaining necessity is sold based on a Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price & according to most business schools,that price is 1000% mark up from manufacturing cost.This gives retailers a margin to cover cost + advertising + overhead & allow them to offer special "Sales"(sometime)at generally -20 to 30% & still make a profit.Take the recent Doxa "Summer Sale"as an example:With a normal retail price of around $2750.00 for the Sub 1000T,they are being sold for about $1500.00,almost half normal retail.Now you know they are not giving them away without making some kind of profit on them,probably at LEAST $250.00-$350.00 per unit(I'm betting more).This gives us a pretty good idea of what they actually invest per unit to make them.It's no wonder Rolex investors are laughing all the way to the bank!It's too bad consumers don't realize that they could control the cost of every luxery item on the planet by simply NOT buying until the cost came down to a more reasonable profit margin.Supply & demand.
    Current(Automatic):
    Fortis "Mars 500 Chronograph",1 of 500...
    Squale"30Atmos GMT"Alpine Green,1 of 200...
    Damasko "DSub1"...
    Zodiac"Super Seawolf"Ivory/Old Radium,No Date...
    Deep Blue "Daynight Diver"Sunray Blue/Blue Ceramic,T100GTLS...
    Future additions:
    Undone custom"PVD/Old Radium No Date"Diver...
    Squale"101 Atmos"PVD/Yellow...
    GRAIL:2020 Omega Seamaster "Bond 007 Edition"...

  6. #5
    Member DutchDiver's Avatar
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    Re: Watch Prices?

    Buying a Swiss made >$1000 watch is always based on emotion (apart from some very exceptional complications). Take the 1000T for example. I bought this watch recently and I am very pleased with it. But still it houses a less then $100 movement and it's really never worth $2800. I bought it because of the summer sale otherwise no 1000T for me. But do not blame Doxa for this, it is the same with all these kind of brands. I also own Rolex watches, are they worth there high prices taking the quality in mind? Hell no! Offcourse they make very good watches and I am also very pleased with mine. But I also own a couple of Seiko watches which cost a fraction of a Rolex and run more accurate. After 7 years my Rolex stopped and needed a €300 service. Some of my ($100) Seiko's still run without any problems after 15 years without any service at all. No, based on quality a good watch does not have to cost more then a couple of 100 Dollars. But when status (=emotion) is important a Seiko normally does not fit in. Then we need brands like Rolex, Breitling, Doxa etc. and then we have to pay.

  7. #6
    Member rfjacques's Avatar
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    Re: Watch Prices?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug507 View Post
    I'll probably get turbo-flamed for this statement, but there is no logical reason to spend more than $50 for a watch. That'll buy you a watch that will do whatever you need it to do.
    I don't think my response will qualify as a "turbo-flame," but I think my definition of "logical" is different from yours. I agree that $50 or $100 will buy a watch capable of performing most any timekeeping or calculating function. But I don't agree that spending more must be "illogical," i.e., lacking valid reasoning or sound judgment.

    My personal tastes tend to favor the mechanical or old-fashioned. There is an appreciation of precision parts that work together, and of quasi- permanence in a world that is increasingly dominated by disposable consumer goods. These values are why I prefer film to digital, fountain pens to ballpoints, and mechanical watches to quartz.

    Does it mean that film, fountain pens, and mechanical watches are inherently more capable than their opposites? No. (Well, film is far superior to digital, but that's a different debate.) Sure, a $50 Timex can keep time just as well or better than any of my Doxas. But does that mean that the only logical watch to buy is the Timex? I don't think so, because timekeeping function is only one part of the decision-making calculus. For me, and I suspect for most of us on WUS, there are other factors to consider -- and the act of considering them, of weighing them, involves reason and judgment.

    There is not one watch in my collection that was ill-considered or bought on the basis of pure impulse. Someone else might not draw the same conclusions from the same set of facts, but that doesn't mean my thought process was illogical. JMHO.

    Oh, one other thing...someone else brought up the subject of the cost of raw materials, profit margins, etc. If your only concept of value is based on the cost of raw materials, then you will always be wasting your money by purchasing something pre-made. By that standard, the best value in the watch world would be to purchase a hunk of raw steel, a few files and rasps, and an unfinished crystal. I'd prefer to let someone else do the work for me, and that adds to my concept of value. I was always taught that the true value of an item was what an informed buyer was willing to pay for it.
    // Rob




  8. #7
    Moderator Jason71's Avatar
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    Re: Watch Prices?

    Quote Originally Posted by rfjacques View Post
    I don't think my response will qualify as a "turbo-flame," but I think my definition of "logical" is different from yours. I agree that $50 or $100 will buy a watch capable of performing most any timekeeping or calculating function. But I don't agree that spending more must be "illogical," i.e., lacking valid reasoning or sound judgment.

    My personal tastes tend to favor the mechanical or old-fashioned. There is an appreciation of precision parts that work together, and of quasi- permanence in a world that is increasingly dominated by disposable consumer goods. These values are why I prefer film to digital, fountain pens to ballpoints, and mechanical watches to quartz.

    Does it mean that film, fountain pens, and mechanical watches are inherently more capable than their opposites? No. (Well, film is far superior to digital, but that's a different debate.) Sure, a $50 Timex can keep time just as well or better than any of my Doxas. But does that mean that the only logical watch to buy is the Timex? I don't think so, because timekeeping function is only one part of the decision-making calculus. For me, and I suspect for most of us on WUS, there are other factors to consider -- and the act of considering them, of weighing them, involves reason and judgment.

    There is not one watch in my collection that was ill-considered or bought on the basis of pure impulse. Someone else might not draw the same conclusions from the same set of facts, but that doesn't mean my thought process was illogical. JMHO.

    Oh, one other thing...someone else brought up the subject of the cost of raw materials, profit margins, etc. If your only concept of value is based on the cost of raw materials, then you will always be wasting your money by purchasing something pre-made. By that standard, the best value in the watch world would be to purchase a hunk of raw steel, a few files and rasps, and an unfinished crystal. I'd prefer to let someone else do the work for me, and that adds to my concept of value. I was always taught that the true value of an item was what an informed buyer was willing to pay for it.
    You bring-up some very valid points.

    The reason that I started buying automatic watches is that I wanted a watch that would last me a lifetime. With inexpensive watches, they are more disposable. After a battery change or two, one would flood and then it would be time to purchase another watch------Right after I had gotten to where I was accustomed to the watch and liked it.

    IMHO, if you divide the price of one of these expensive Swiss watches over a lifetime.........it becomes QUITE affordable..................Even if you factor-in the cost of maintenance.

    Sure my watches are more expensive now, I take them for routine service every several years, and a regular pressure test. However, I like the familiarity of having the same basic watches that I wear all the time. I am also a bit nostalgic and can't wait to pass my watch collection to my kids some day. Maybe it will help them to get ahead in life if they choose to cash most of the collection in.
    Best Regards,
    Jason





  9. #8

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    Re: Watch Prices?

    I want thank everyone in expressing their honest view about swiss watch pricing. I understand everyones view on this post, as I weight it all out before I decided to purchase a Doxa. I guess I left the door wide open and made a open statement about pricing vs. value or the preception of it. I do understand that a $20 Timex will be more accurate than any mechanical watch. I also understand majority of the time when purchasing a watch at $1000 or more it is a want vs. a need. I understand when comes to cost of materials and manufacturing, that the watch cost vs. what it actually sells for are two different thing. Which leads me to clearify my intention of this post.
    Given that majority of swiss watch companies who produce mechanical automatic watches use either an ETA, Valjox or seltia movement. These movements are either left as is with slight modifications or highly decorated by the company. Some company will have all in house movement such as Rolex, Zenith and so forth will and have an added expense to it.
    I just find hard to believe or justify that one company can charge up to $7000cdn for a chrono and some will charge say $3000cdn. Given some are chronometer certified and some have a proprietiary movement modification (omega coaxial movement come into mind). Some like I said will have an in house movement.
    Given that if I won the lotto this would not make difference. I would purchase an omega, a rolex and every other watch that I ever wanted. (although my wife might think I was nuts for spending that much on so many watches!)
    I hope this makes things a little bit clearer on my intentions from my first post.
    All in all I enjoy all types of watches as much as everyone else on WUS, but I had to choose one and I made it a Doxa. Through following different watch forums and the Doxa forum I thought it was my best pick for price and value. (Sub 600T-Graph searambler)
    Anymore feedback would be appreciated.
    J.

  10. #9
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    Re: Watch Prices?

    My feeling is that the price of a decent watch is much more of a function of the entire experience, rather than the material cost. I mean this :

    - There is some enjoyment searching for, saving for ( probably .. ) and ultimately being able to acquire a watch. Example. If you are reading this forum, I'm guessing its not because someone has a gun to your head ... it's an enjoyable way to spend time.

    - This searching, weighing, thinking, talking, debating, and learning is enjoyable yet a form of striving. And unlike immediate satisfaction, striving has its own value : we do not value those things that come easily as much as those that take some effort, time, thought or sacrifice. So a good watch is climbing a mountain. A poor watch is falling through a manhole cover.

    - There is of course enjoyment of the watch itself. It's design. It's features. It's comfort. It's colour, it's quality, it's rarity, it's toughness, it's delicateness, it's accuracy, it's historical importance, it's throwaway transience .... something anyway. That's why you bought it

    - There is some ongoing simple enjoyment of ownership. Putting the watch on, remembrance of great times when you were wearing it, or a marker of a significant event. It evokes some good feeling for a personal reason. Or it justs tells you the darn time when you need to know it

    If you place some value on the enjoyment above over the lifetime of your ownership of the watch, you may see the price as entirely rational. For (say) a thousand dollars, is the total enjoyment above for 10 or more years reasonable ?

    And the key point for me is, much of the enjoyment above has nothing to do with the movement used in the watch, the base price of ETAs, the origin of the ore used to make the buckle tang.

    In other words, while it is interesting at a business level to work our gross profit margins, product differentiation and history ( I am not being dismissive - it is interesting ), at a personal level to focus too much on the raw costs of manufacture when evaluating luxury purchases can perhaps be a bit pointless. There is more going on than cost-plus pricing.

    By extension, the manufacturers' know this. So, for example, rarity whether natural or artificial ( limited editions anyone .. ), design, prestige, history and in some cases even the price itself are all used to 'add value' to your total experience. I have no problem with this, even if the origin of the value has no physical attribute.

    Well this got deep quick. Tune in next week when TT explains his philosophy of "how I learned to admire, not acquire" and saved millions on unnecessary purchases

    TT
    Last edited by tokyotokei; September 16th, 2009 at 10:31. Reason: fell into a typographical manhole

  11. #10
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    Re: Watch Prices?

    I'll second what a lot of folks said here - clearly, these expensive automatic watches are about want not need, and what they provide goes beyond just telling time, obviously - the enjoyment of the technology, craftsmanship, style, etc. I know looking down at my 750T Pro makes me happy - also, if you divide the cost over the years you'll wear it, it's not as drastic a difference from a cheap watch which I always replaced every couple of years. So, a 2000 dollar watch that you wear for 10 years is only 4 times as expensive as 50 dollar watches that you replace every other year.

    It's interesting that most of us end up having to justify buying expensive watches at some time or another, to ourselves, friends, spouses, etc. In other aspects of life, you don't always buy the absolute cheapest option (car, clothes, etc) and I don't feel the need to justify my choices in those cases. With watches, somehow, we do. Maybe it's the amount of money, or maybe it seems like hedonistic indulgence to some. My advice would be to buy first, then justify!
    Doxa 750T Pro, Bernhardt Globemaster, MKII Stingray 50

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