Final clarification on movements before I pull the trigger! Bare with me........

Thread: Final clarification on movements before I pull the trigger! Bare with me........

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  1. #1
    Member whifferdill's Avatar
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    Final clarification on movements before I pull the trigger! Bare with me........

    Firstly - I know this is old ground, but having read all the various threads ( and contradictions ) could anyone clarify / qualify the following statement as being true:

    The Antea Standard watch comes with an eta 2824 - 2 Elabore grade movement with the addition of a Stowa rotor, while the COSC version, is fitted with an eta 2824-2 Top grade movement, also embelished with a Stowa rotor and Geneve stripes etc and has the Incabloc shock protection and other refinements in parts.

    Apologies, again but help - there seems to be even different answers from Stowa!

    Cheers all

    Whifferdill

    Minutes are the Milestones of Aviation - Fred, in 'Fools and Birds Fly'

  2. #2
    Member J_Hack's Avatar
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    Re: Final clarification on movements before I pull the trigger! Bare with me........

    I am confused by your question. I have copied some comparison from a post Mike Stuffler posted almost 2 years ago. Here is the info and link to the thread... https://forums.watchuseek.com/f36/eta...-a-314396.html

    And the info posted by Mike Stuffler...
    Standard:
    2 positions (CH, 6H)
    daily rate: +/-12 sec/day
    Maximum positional variation: 30 sec
    Isochronism (between 0 and 24 hours): +/- 20 sec

    Elabore:
    3 positions (CH, 6H, 9H)
    daily rate: +/-7 sec/day
    Maximum positional variation: 20 sec
    Isochronism (between 0 and 24 hours): +/- 15 sec

    Top:
    5 positions (CH, FH, 6H, 9H, 3H)
    daily rate: +/-4 sec/day
    Maximum positional variation: 15 sec
    Isochronism (between 0 and 24 hours): +/- 10 sec

    Chronometre:
    As per COSC specifications, which as far as most owners will notice, isn't much different from Top grade.

    The "material differences" are listed below.

    Standard and Elabore:
    Mainspring - Nivaflex NO
    Shock protection - Etachocs
    Pallet stones - Polyrubies, Epilame-coated
    Balance - Nickel gilt
    Balance staff - Epilame coated
    Collet - Nivatronic
    Hairspring - Nivarox 2
    Hairspring heat treatment - Etastable

    Top and Chronometre:
    Mainspring - NivaflexNM
    Shock protection - Incabloc
    Pallet stones - Red rubies, Epilame-coated
    Balance - Glucydur gilt
    Balance staff - Epilame coated
    Collet - Nivatronic
    Hairspring - Anachron
    Hairspring heat treatment - Etastable

    Standard:
    2 positions (CH, 6H)
    daily rate: +/-12 sec/day
    Maximum positional variation: 30 sec
    Isochronism (between 0 and 24 hours): +/- 20 sec

    Elabore:
    3 positions (CH, 6H, 9H)
    daily rate: +/-7 sec/day
    Maximum positional variation: 20 sec
    Isochronism (between 0 and 24 hours): +/- 15 sec

    Top:
    5 positions (CH, FH, 6H, 9H, 3H)
    daily rate: +/-4 sec/day
    Maximum positional variation: 15 sec
    Isochronism (between 0 and 24 hours): +/- 10 sec

    Chronometre:
    As per COSC specifications, which as far as most owners will notice, isn't much different from Top grade.

    The "material differences" are listed below.

    Standard and Elabore:
    Mainspring - Nivaflex NO
    Shock protection - Etachocs
    Pallet stones - Polyrubies, Epilame-coated
    Balance - Nickel gilt
    Balance staff - Epilame coated
    Collet - Nivatronic
    Hairspring - Nivarox 2
    Hairspring heat treatment - Etastable

    Top and Chronometre:
    Mainspring - NivaflexNM
    Shock protection - Incabloc
    Pallet stones - Red rubies, Epilame-coated
    Balance - Glucydur gilt
    Balance staff - Epilame coated
    Collet - Nivatronic
    Hairspring - Anachron
    Hairspring heat treatment - Etastable
    Standard:
    2 positions (CH, 6H)
    daily rate: +/-12 sec/day
    Maximum positional variation: 30 sec
    Isochronism (between 0 and 24 hours): +/- 20 sec

    Elabore:
    3 positions (CH, 6H, 9H)
    daily rate: +/-7 sec/day
    Maximum positional variation: 20 sec
    Isochronism (between 0 and 24 hours): +/- 15 sec

    Top:
    5 positions (CH, FH, 6H, 9H, 3H)
    daily rate: +/-4 sec/day
    Maximum positional variation: 15 sec
    Isochronism (between 0 and 24 hours): +/- 10 sec

    Chronometre:
    As per COSC specifications, which as far as most owners will notice, isn't much different from Top grade.

    The "material differences" are listed below.

    Standard and Elabore:
    Mainspring - Nivaflex NO
    Shock protection - Etachocs
    Pallet stones - Polyrubies, Epilame-coated
    Balance - Nickel gilt
    Balance staff - Epilame coated
    Collet - Nivatronic
    Hairspring - Nivarox 2
    Hairspring heat treatment - Etastable

    Top and Chronometre:
    Mainspring - NivaflexNM
    Shock protection - Incabloc
    Pallet stones - Red rubies, Epilame-coated
    Balance - Glucydur gilt
    Balance staff - Epilame coated
    Collet - Nivatronic
    Hairspring - Anachron
    Hairspring heat treatment - Etastable

  3. #3
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    Re: Final clarification on movements before I pull the trigger! Bare with me........

    I am not confused because I had the same question and read the same contradicting posts. Some posters stated that the movement Stowa submits for COSC certification is an upgraded elaborate grade 2824 (IE that the movement is not Top or Chronometer grade). Others stated it was a modified Top grade movement that justifies the COSC premium added to the base price. Both sides stated they asked Stowa directly to justify their positions. Anyway to the best of my research I believe your above statement to be correct; I think the COSC upgrade gets you a Top grade movement. I'm not a movement expert, but from what I have read, the pictures of the COSC movement on the Stowa site tends to support this because they show flared spokes and not straight.

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  5. #4
    Moderator German Watches Forum
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    Re: Final clarification on movements before I pull the trigger! Bare with me........

    Here is how I think this works.

    ETA sends movements to COSC for certification prior to selling
    the movements to Stowa. Being a little loose with terms we
    might call those movements "Top grade". However, the tested
    movements have serial numbers while top grade movements do
    not. I it is think best to use the ETA term "COSC" grade.

    Jörg mentioned here due to ETA restrictions, next year there will
    be no more COSC movements available in the Stowa watches.
    From now on, we won't get any new COSC movements from Switzerland.
    In order to get furthermore official tested movements from Switzerland, we should have to decorate our watches with the lettering "Made In Switzerland" and the assembling has to be made there as well.
    In my opinion if you are so close to deciding, you may was well
    get the COSC movement. It appears there will be no second
    chance.

    Thanks,
    rationaltime

  6. #5
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    Re: Final clarification on movements before I pull the trigger! Bare with me........

    I am interested to here no more official COSC movements after this year. Makes me glad I went with this option. Makes mine one of the last COSC Prodivers Thank you for the clarification.

  7. #6
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    Re: Final clarification on movements before I pull the trigger! Bare with me........

    There's no reason to get the COSC option in my opinion. My standard Seatime runs +4 consistently. I've heard of COSC versions running the same or worse. You gotta remember that when the watch ships from Germany, it gets bumped and shaken pretty bad on the plane. I have several Elabore grade 2824-2 that all run about +3 or +4 consistently. So I would buy the upgraded movement for decoration alone as the timekeeping won't be that much different. I used to have another standard Seatime that I sold that ran pretty much +1/+2 for 1.5 years.
    Omega Speedmaster Professional (ST 145.022)
    Omega Speedmaster Automatic (ST 176.0016) Cal. 1045 (Lemania 5100)
    Hamilton Field Mechanical
    Marathon SAR (2006)







  8. #7
    Member whifferdill's Avatar
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    Re: Final clarification on movements before I pull the trigger! Bare with me........

    Thanks for that - interesting to hear about the discontinuation of COSC movements in the Stowa range - another push in that direction then. I also find it strange that there is no definitive answer on what, exactly, Stowa are putting in their watches and the concencus seems to have been gleaned from some educated guess work by the people on this forum! It makes sense that the standard is Elabore, regulated to a fine degree by Stowa, while the COSC version would have to be a Top grade to fulfill the COSC requirements? - it is the more hard wearing Niveflex spring, Glucydur balance and incabloc shock protection that interests me the most, rather than accuracy or the COSC cert - I'm not even that concerned about the additional decoration and actually prefer solid case backs! If these movements will become rare in the Stowa range, however, it will be nice to have something in the future, that will be a little bit special in those terms.

    Movements aside - they're gorgeous watches!

    Thanks for the responses.

    Minutes are the Milestones of Aviation - Fred, in 'Fools and Birds Fly'

  9. #8
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    Re: Final clarification on movements before I pull the trigger! Bare with me........

    I concur with Wifferdill all the way. I just like knowing the movement is upgraded and kinda "special". I don't buy that many watches and the ones I do buy I wear; so the extra couple hundred seems worth it for an upgraded movement and a little bit of "special".

  10. #9
    Member whifferdill's Avatar
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    Re: Final clarification on movements before I pull the trigger! Bare with me........

    Quote Originally Posted by Conch View Post
    .......................I don't buy that many watches and the ones I do buy I wear; so the extra couple hundred seems worth it for an upgraded movement and a little bit of "special".
    I'm exactly the same - I like to have a practical collection and I'm keeping myself to three, good watches that I will wear often - it's taken a long time to get to that, but I choose carefully these days, which is why I'm spending so long on this decision - I have a watch I wear for work (Fortis), an everyday watch that is good for most things ( the Omega AT - the Speedy is going ) and this Stowa will complete my collection (for a long time, I hope, but who knows? :) ) by being an occasional dress watch that I can really appreciate and enjoy - I just wish it was more obvious what the COSC movement actually was in terms of the grade, as I like to know what I'm paying the extra for ( aside form the decoration and COSC cert ). It's been very confusing trying to find that out! I'm pretty much decided now, however and will be pressing that 'buy now' button in the next day or so!

    I just hope it is, indeed, the Top grade base movement, improved upon, and not a decorated and officially tested Elabore grade that will be going in the watch. Otherwise, I'd probably be content with the standard model.

    Minutes are the Milestones of Aviation - Fred, in 'Fools and Birds Fly'

  11. #10
    Member JarrodS's Avatar
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    Re: Final clarification on movements before I pull the trigger! Bare with me........

    Quote Originally Posted by whifferdill View Post
    I just hope it is, indeed, the Top grade base movement, improved upon, and not a decorated and officially tested Elabore grade that will be going in the watch. Otherwise, I'd probably be content with the standard model.
    Hi again,

    The best discussion I found on this topic is in the following thread:

    https://forums.watchuseek.com/f36/eta...-314396-2.html

    There is conflicting information there, but the *latest* information conveyed by Stowa, and the information given by our forum moderator, both indicate that it is indeed a "top grade" movement. Looking at my COSC certificate, I find this believable because the tolerances in all positions but one were all measured to be under 1s. The final one is +2 and change. So the movement is *well* within COSC standards indicating to me that this was built and adjusted from the beginning to be a chronometer movement.

    I want to learn how to differentiate between the two balance wheels. That would be visual confirmation.

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