GRAIL WATCH?
Like Tree18Likes

Thread: GRAIL WATCH?

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 24
  1. #1
    Member The Watch Cave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    26

    GRAIL WATCH?

    2020 Might be the year I finally pull the trigger on a grail watch. There's two contenders currently vying for the honors: the Girard Perregaux World Time Financial Chrono & the Zenith El Primero Chronomaster 1969. I'd welcome any thoughts or opinions on the two pieces. Wich would you choose? ...
    Attached Images Attached Images




  2. #2
    Member dbostedo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    6,314

    Re: GRAIL WATCH?

    GP a million times over.

    Mostly because I don't like that Zenith at all, so maybe my opinion isn't that valuable. :)
    ​Grand Seiko SBGE033, Jaquest Droz Grande Seconde, Breitling Navitimer Cosmonaute, Prometheus Piranha, Orient Wingman, Zeppelin Flatline 7366-3, Glashutte Original PanoMaticLunar, Epos Emotion 3390, Steinhart Ocean 2 Premium, Hamilton Khaki Field, Omega 1965 Vintage, Seiko 5 SNKK27, Seiko 1977 Vintage, Nomos Orion 38, Wittnauer 1960's Vintage, Movado SL1 Chrono, Seiko SBQK085, Cyma Le Locle, Casio Oceanus OCW-S100-1AJF

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    452
    That specific GP can be had for a song prepared, and if you like the design it’s a great bargain!
    I personally don’t really like it and believe the design doesn’t age very well, but it’s all personal preferences. Regarding the Zenith, I suggest you look at the other El Primero models as there are A LOT of options, different color schemes and some models with a little more interesting features/movement/design for fairly similar prices on the grey market.
    The Watch Cave likes this.

  4. Remove Advertisements
    WatchUSeek.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Southampton UK
    Posts
    962

    Re: GRAIL WATCH?

    I would consider a world timer if I travelled extensively and was going to use the function. If not...
    Omega SMP 300 Chrono
    Omega 8500 Aqua Terra
    Omega 2500 Orange PO
    Vintage Omega Geneve
    Chopard GT XL
    Bell & Ross BR03-92 Ceramic

  6. #5
    Member The Watch Cave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    26

    Re: GRAIL WATCH?

    Quote Originally Posted by ar7iste View Post
    That specific GP can be had for a song prepared, and if you like the design it’s a great bargain!
    I personally don’t really like it and believe the design doesn’t age very well, but it’s all personal preferences. Regarding the Zenith, I suggest you look at the other El Primero models as there are A LOT of options, different color schemes and some models with a little more interesting features/movement/design for fairly similar prices on the grey market.
    Girard Perregaux is a brand that's only recently appeared on my radar. Any idea how it stacks up against that legendary El Primero chronograph movement? 3rd possible contender is the latest iteration of the Seamaster (Calibre 8800). I've watched many of the youtube watch gurus tearfully admit that it trounces the new Subby in head-to-head competition. Thoughts? ...
    ar7iste likes this.

  7. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    452

    Re: GRAIL WATCH?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Watch Cave View Post
    Girard Perregaux is a brand that's only recently appeared on my radar. Any idea how it stacks up against that legendary El Primero chronograph movement? 3rd possible contender is the latest iteration of the Seamaster (Calibre 8800). I've watched many of the youtube watch gurus tearfully admit that it trounces the new Subby in head-to-head competition. Thoughts? ...
    Well, this is going to be purely personal opinion so you are welcome to argue with it and disagree, but I like those topics, so here it is:
    I firmly believe that watch pricing is based on brand positioning and a combination of consensual design approval + availability. Meaning that a submariner ceramic vs the new seamaster can be compared head to head even though they are on different price points. Do I think the Seamaster is a better watch? Yes. Would I buy one, definitely yes over a ceramic sub, but I would rather buy an older 14060M 2 liner sub non ceramic that is technically inferior and a little more expensive just because I like the design language a bit more and the thinness/small diameter ratio.

    Now, where I think is a good place to look, is exactly what you did with the GP. It doesn't have a consensual design. Meaning that the value goes down drastically, which many see as a bad thing, well, I see it as a great thing for a collector! If you like the design, there are some extraordinary watches that are technically impressive and fantastic that can be had for a really good price.

    Then there is the history/heritage theme, with the El Primero movement for instance. I do quite like the idea of historically important timepieces, I have a Speedy myself and the heritage is part of the reason. However, there have been a lot of advancement in watchmaking in the past 40 years and great technology, movements and materials can make a difference for your own enjoyment too. This is a matter of personal preference, as you will likely trade an easily serviceable legendary movement for a more complex (i.e. more expensive to service) movement with a few cool features. That's up to you to see what speaks to you. I personally do not mind heavily modified off-the-shelf movements vs in-house, as in-house doesn't necessarily bring something significant to the table in terms of originality and can be used as a gimmick to increase the price tag. But to each his own, and some in-house movements are really worth it.

    If I deduce that your target price is close to $5k based on the watches you're interested in, try putting some of your criteria in the chrono24 search engine and see what you like. It will push you to research different models, google reviews and check instagram for pictures. I think we've all been there!

    All the best,
    A.

  8. #7
    Member bjlev's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    82

    Re: GRAIL WATCH?

    Love the GP have always wanted one, but the dial on the Zenith is very cool and unique.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The Watch Cave likes this.

  9. #8
    Member The Watch Cave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    26

    Re: GRAIL WATCH?

    Quote Originally Posted by ar7iste View Post
    Well, this is going to be purely personal opinion so you are welcome to argue with it and disagree, but I like those topics, so here it is:
    I firmly believe that watch pricing is based on brand positioning and a combination of consensual design approval + availability. Meaning that a submariner ceramic vs the new seamaster can be compared head to head even though they are on different price points. Do I think the Seamaster is a better watch? Yes. Would I buy one, definitely yes over a ceramic sub, but I would rather buy an older 14060M 2 liner sub non ceramic that is technically inferior and a little more expensive just because I like the design language a bit more and the thinness/small diameter ratio.

    Now, where I think is a good place to look, is exactly what you did with the GP. It doesn't have a consensual design. Meaning that the value goes down drastically, which many see as a bad thing, well, I see it as a great thing for a collector! If you like the design, there are some extraordinary watches that are technically impressive and fantastic that can be had for a really good price.

    Then there is the history/heritage theme, with the El Primero movement for instance. I do quite like the idea of historically important timepieces, I have a Speedy myself and the heritage is part of the reason. However, there have been a lot of advancement in watchmaking in the past 40 years and great technology, movements and materials can make a difference for your own enjoyment too. This is a matter of personal preference, as you will likely trade an easily serviceable legendary movement for a more complex (i.e. more expensive to service) movement with a few cool features. That's up to you to see what speaks to you. I personally do not mind heavily modified off-the-shelf movements vs in-house, as in-house doesn't necessarily bring something significant to the table in terms of originality and can be used as a gimmick to increase the price tag. But to each his own, and some in-house movements are really worth it.

    If I deduce that your target price is close to $5k based on the watches you're interested in, try putting some of your criteria in the chrono24 search engine and see what you like. It will push you to research different models, google reviews and check instagram for pictures. I think we've all been there!

    All the best,
    A.
    Excellent response! Really appreciate your thoughtfulness! I'm leaning slightly towards the El Primero -- and as you've suggested, the horological significance of the movement has more than a little to do with it. The new Seamaster really is impressive tho. With a sticker price of 5k and some pre-owned pieces below 4K, it's really become something of a yardstick for me in re-thinking certain brand valuations. Would I really shell out $3,600 for Tudor Black Bay Fifty-Eight if I could score a like-new Seamaster Calibre 8800 for just slightly more??? And yes, you're spot on about the 5K. I'd be curious to know your personal pick/recommendation in that price range for a Swiss sports watch with some pedigree? ...

  10. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    452
    Quote Originally Posted by The Watch Cave View Post

    Excellent response! Really appreciate your thoughtfulness! I'm leaning slightly towards the El Primero -- and as you've suggested, the horological significance of the movement has more than a little to do with it. The new Seamaster really is impressive tho. With a sticker price of 5k and some pre-owned pieces below 4K, it's really become something of a yardstick for me in re-thinking certain brand valuations. Would I really shell out $3,600 for Tudor Black Bay Fifty-Eight if I could score a like-new Seamaster Calibre 8800 for just slightly more??? And yes, you're spot on about the 5K. I'd be curious to know your personal pick/recommendation in that price range for a Swiss sports watch with some pedigree? ...
    This might be the most overcrowded segment in watchmaking today, so it is very difficult to give proper advice. Considering you want something anywhere between 38mm to 44mm, with at least 5bar WR, bracelet or leather, and either no complication or a chronograph or a gmt/dual time, you can look for:
    - the usual suspects: the original Speedmaster (I love mine, would never sell it) or any of its variations (the grey side of the moon can be had for close to $6k and is an incredible watch, albeit thick), a Rolex Datejust or Explorer 1, a vintage explorer 2 in 40mm;
    - something more bold: IWC ingenieur 3239, Piaget Polo S, BP ff bathyscaphe 38mm (price is maybe just above $6k), or Ulysse Nardin Marine watches (very unique styling, I think they are pretty cool and great quality of finishing for the price), IWC Pilot chronograph flyback saint exupery (it’s a limited edition and looks awesome).


    There are thousands of other options of course, but I think those are worth the price/quality.

    Now, my ultimate pick in this category would be this:
    Breguet type XXI 3810st.
    Excellent heritage, flyback chronograph, steel bracelet or leather strap, versatile, beautiful, it has it all! And it is an incredible bargain on the secondary market right now.

    I hope this helps! Take your time, there are many watches to discover.
    Attached Images Attached Images

    GrouchoM and The Watch Cave like this.

  11. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    966

    Re: GRAIL WATCH?

    Strictly to your OP, I would pick the Zenith hands down - mainly for the calibre and its role in watchmaking history. Also because I prefer the aesthetic even though I don't like open heart dials as a rule. Movements in oversized cases (like for the GP) are also a pet peeve.

    Deviating from your OP, I would echo the suggestion to look at other Zenith options, particularly the most classic dial option (closed). I'd also look at the Breguet chronos suggested above, and consider Speedmasters with the original Lemania chrono movement as well since you seem to like chronos in particular. If the budget can be stretched a little, I'd also consider second hand IWC chronos (modded 7750s), or a Habring chrono. Those are some of the finest examples of 7750-based chronos, and the 7750 is an important movement as well.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

    Tags for this Thread

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •