World timers and European daylight savings change.
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  1. #1
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    World timers and European daylight savings change.

    So do our beloved world timers become paper weights if/when Europe changes their daylight savings status quo?

  2. #2
    Member SethThomas's Avatar
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    Re: World timers and European daylight savings change.

    Quote Originally Posted by R_rated View Post
    So do our beloved world timers become paper weights if/when Europe changes their daylight savings status quo?
    They become vintage collectibles to the future generations of WIS. Some 'GMT' watches will break too.
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    Member drunken-gmt-master's Avatar
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    Re: World timers and European daylight savings change.

    Don't see why it would affect anything. Wish the U.S. would ditch DST.
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  5. #4
    Member SethThomas's Avatar
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    Re: World timers and European daylight savings change.

    Quote Originally Posted by stolen-gmt-master View Post
    Don't see why it would affect anything. Wish the U.S. would ditch DST.
    We are talking about the world timer complication that has all the cities on a wheel of the watch. This is pretty serious change for collectors of this style.

    For example if the UK and all Europe Ditches DST. Then GMT is +4 instead of +5 for half the year relative to NYC. It would make all the cities in Europe not match the Wheels on a world timer. (London, Paris/Berlin, and Athens cities affected)

    Only wouldn't matter is ALL countries in the world ditch it.


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  6. #5
    Member wintershade's Avatar
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    Re: World timers and European daylight savings change.

    Well that's kind of annoying....

  7. #6
    Member drunken-gmt-master's Avatar
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    Re: World timers and European daylight savings change.

    Quote Originally Posted by SethThomas View Post
    We are talking about the world timer complication that has all the cities on a wheel of the watch. This is pretty serious change for collectors of this style.

    For example if the UK and all Europe Ditches DST. Then GMT is +4 instead of +5 for half the year relative to NYC. It would make all the cities in Europe not match the Wheels on a world timer. (London, Paris/Berlin, and Athens cities affected)

    Only wouldn't matter is ALL countries in the world ditch it.


    . . .
    Gotcha, but I'm still confused. The whole point of GMT, now UTC, is that it is universal & isn't subject to daylight savings time or other shenanigans. The position of the cities on a world timer dial reflect their time zones during standard time in relation to GMT/UTC & isn't affected by whether/when daylights savings/summer time is followed in the country where the cities are located, i.e., regardless of whether they use DST, London will be at UTC, Paris will be UTC+1, Athens UTC+2, etc. As a result, the dials are already incorrect part of the time depending on when & where you travel. You are correct that if all the countries of the world abandoned daylight savings/summer time, then the dial would always be correct (barring a change in the actual time zones that I mention below).

    For example, UTC is always 5 hours ahead of EST, so London will always be 5 zones away from NYC on the world timer dial as is shown in your pictures. Of course, both the US & UK employ daylights savings time, albeit on different days (2nd Sunday in March to 1st Sunday in November for the US, last Sunday in March to last Sunday in October for UK), so you still have to adjust the time when that happens & the world timer dial will be wrong when 1 country observes DST & the other does not, say if you go from NYC to London in early March or early November, when NYC is on EDT & only 4, not 5, hours behind London. In that case (an early March/November trip from NYC to London), you would have to use the Azores, not London, setting on the JLC & Nomos dials you show to get the local time (or you could choose to not reset your watch to EDT in NYC & your home time would be wrong). In a personal example, I have the Nomos Tangomat GMT, which is the stripped down version of the Weltzeit in your post, & when I go to China, which doesn't use DST, during the 7+ months we observe DST here in the US, I can't click to HK for the local time, I have to click to BKK. I would have the same (1st World) problem if I were fortunate enough to have a JLC or Patek Philippe world timer.

    The only time a world timer dial needs to be permanently changed is when a country decides to change their time zones where the cities are located, like Russia did with Moscow in 2011 & 2014 (or if Spain decides to reverse Franco & go back to GMT from UTC+1, though I can't recall any world timer that has/had a Spanish city on the dial). So unless the EU decides to actually change all the time zones for their constituent states (e.g., pulling a China & making Brussels/UTC+1 time the only European time zone) your world timer investment should be fine.
    Last edited by stolen-gmt-master; September 15th, 2019 at 10:30.
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  8. #7
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    Re: World timers and European daylight savings change.

    stolen-gmt has a point.

    It's already true that the city ring is trashed, even for Europe/US, for SOME of the year...because DST start/stop dates aren't the same everywhere. All of Europe looks to be using the same one...but Russia, Inda and China don't bother. The 2 major users are the US and Europe...and their dates are different.

    AND, for that matter: when the southern hemisphere does DST, it's from October to April (the sections of Australia that use it), Nov-Feb (Brazil), etc. So:

    --Nov through Jan, Rio is effectively GMT-2...3 hours ahead of NYC
    --February, it's 2 hours ahead
    --March thru October, it's 1 hour ahead

    Dates are a bit different but it applies to Europe the same.

    Map and list here:
    https://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst/2018.html

    If Europe drops DST...this makes your world times work more consistently, not less.
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  9. #8
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    Re: World timers and European daylight savings change.

    European countries get to choose wether they want to keep standard (winter time) or daylight saving time as the standard time.

    I live in the Netherlands. We are UTC+1, when they chose to keep standard time as the new time, we stay UTC +1. On the other hand when daylight saving time becomes the new standard, then Amsterdam is UTC+2. And if the Germans choose the standard time, then Berlin is UTC +1.

    In that case when you would be traveling from Amsterdam to Berlin, you would travel east and go back in time.

  10. #9
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    Re: World timers and European daylight savings change.

    I searched for a link explaining this:

    https://www.google.nl/amp/s/amp.theg...time-from-2021

  11. #10
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    Re: World timers and European daylight savings change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Outer Marker View Post
    European countries get to choose wether they want to keep standard (winter time) or daylight saving time as the standard time.

    I live in the Netherlands. We are UTC+1, when they chose to keep standard time as the new time, we stay UTC +1. On the other hand when daylight saving time becomes the new standard, then Amsterdam is UTC+2. And if the Germans choose the standard time, then Berlin is UTC +1.

    In that case when you would be traveling from Amsterdam to Berlin, you would travel east and go back in time.
    The same is true within the US. Hawaii & Arizona (except for the Navajo Nation) don't follow daylight savings (Indiana also opted out before 2006).
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