# Definition of beat error

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• September 19th, 2015
contrate_wheel
Definition of beat error
Dear forum members, first post for me, and I have a question: what exactly
is beat error? More precisely, let us denote by t_1 the time between a tic
and the following toc, and by t_2 the time between a toc and the following
tic of a watch movement. Assume that these quantities are stable enough.
There seems to be disagreement on whether the beat error is t_1-t_2 or
(t_1-t_2)/2. In particular:

Supporting (t_1-t_2)/2
* We have this document of the Witschi company
http://www.witschi.com/assets/files/...%20watches.pdf
paragraph 1.2.2 in page 5. And other similar manuals from Witschi.
* We have no precise definition from the makers of the Vibrograh machine,
neverthelss in this manual
http://greinervibrograf.com/appl/file.php?id=231
at page 4, we find a diagram indicating that the beat error is the
distance between the two parallel lines of dots generated by the machine,
and this, in fact, turns out to be (t_1-t_2)/2.

Supporting t_1-t_2
* We have this page on the MicroSet website
http://www.bmumford.com/mset/beaterrormode.html
informing us that "MicroSet will measure the length of two beats and
compare them. It will then display the difference between them".
* We have other resources on the web, for instance this page
http://hiro.alliancehorlogere.c
om/en/Glossary/Beat_Error
* We have a few posts on this very forum, for instance lysanderxiii's
post in this thread
https://forums.watchuseek.com/f6/beat...at-583431.html
tells us that "2.8 ms means the swing in one direction is 2.8 ms longer
than the the other direction".

I couldn't find a definite answer, yet I didn't venture into the technical
litterature. Anyway the fact that Wischi (industry standard) and MicroSet
(very solid repuatation) seem to disagree on their definition needs to be
explained, doesn't it? If one had the two mechines side by side, he could
throw a movement intentionally out of beat by various amounts, and then

Hope that someone can explain my little impasse, and thank you all in
• September 20th, 2015
mpalmer
Re: Definition of beat error
Welcome to the forums!
• September 20th, 2015
El @
Re: Definition of beat error
Quote:

Originally Posted by contrate_wheel
Dear forum members, first post for me, and I have a question: what exactly
is beat error?

• September 20th, 2015
pithy
Re: Definition of beat error
Quote:

Originally Posted by contrate_wheel
Dear forum members, first post for me, and I have a question: what exactly is beat error? . . . .

Doh.

Lack of symmetry in the half oscillations of the balance.

Are we going to have to go through a big rig-a-ma-row or do you just want the source code (or are you wanting us to help you attempt to write your own)?

Java?

What is needed is a better gain algorithm/filter.
• September 20th, 2015
BenchGuy
Re: Definition of beat error
Quote:

Originally Posted by El @

El, is this your you tube post?
• September 20th, 2015
BenchGuy
Re: Definition of beat error
To OP: Each manufacturer describes the derivation of output for its particular device so that users will understand the meaning. At the end of the day, regardless of computation, "zero" beat error is the objective...and ends up being the same regardless of calculation method...there is no discrepancy in this. Witschi is the standard, and using Mumford in the same sentence is an insult (of course in the one case it is an insult to Witschi and in the other to Mumford...you are a philosopher, so I'm sure you'll figure this out). Best regards and welcome to f6, BG
• September 20th, 2015
El @
Re: Definition of beat error
Quote:

Originally Posted by BenchGuy
El, is this your you tube post?

No, it's my attempt to help the OP posting a link to a pertaining video, if you don't mind and allow me.
• September 20th, 2015
contrate_wheel
Re: Definition of beat error
Quote:

Originally Posted by BenchGuy
To OP: Each manufacturer describes the derivation of output for its particular device so that users will understand the meaning. At the end of the day, regardless of computation, "zero" beat error is the objective...and ends up being the same regardless of calculation method...there is no discrepancy in this. Witschi is the standard, and using Mumford in the same sentence is an insult (of course in the one case it is an insult to Witschi and in the other to Mumford...you are a philosopher, so I'm sure you'll figure this out). Best regards and welcome to f6, BG

Thank you BG for your answer! So, as I get it, the precise definition is
known to depend on the manufacturer, and that's fine for me. Pithy was
right in his guess that I am writing my own timing software. In fact I
already have it, and considering that there is no open source timing
software around, I am thinking to release it as free software. As you may
immagine, there is some polishing that a program made for personal use
needs to undergo before it can be published. That is the origin of my
question: I intend to display as beat error the same number that the
majority of users expects to see, and not double nor half of it. Having to
choose, I opt for the Witschi definition (no insult intended here for
other manufacturers, but I agree with you that they have the authority to
be considered the standard).

I hope to be able to contribute my program soon, it has been in an
unfinished state for almost one year now, but in a few more week ends it
will be ready, at least under Linux.
• September 21st, 2015
poisonwazthecure
Re: Definition of beat error
I myself prefer Matlab.
• September 21st, 2015
Roland Ranfft
Re: Definition of beat error
Hi there,

Quote:

Originally Posted by contrate_wheel
I opt for the Witschi definition (no insult intended here for
other manufacturers, but I agree with you that they have the authority to
be considered the standard).

Authority? based on what? The price?

I'm pretty sure that Chinese manufacturers sell much more than Witschi. And standard should be what the majority uses, and not the one with the most overpriced equipment.

However, if you create an own software, do it better than all: Displaying the error in milliseconds is pretty useless, disregarding wheter you display the time difference, half of it, or 37,58% of it. Do it better and display the error in degrees. This would help immediately to turn the spring collet to the right position with the first attempt.

Regards, Roland Ranfft
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