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  1. #381
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    Quote Originally Posted by contrate_wheel View Post
    Could you record a minute or so of your favorite quartz watch and send it to me?
    Sure... though I'm not quite sure of what you're asking for -- I'm familiar with taking snapshots but I'm not aware of a recording mode in the software. If you could explain exactly what you'd like me to do, I'd be happy to do it. My suspicion though, is that we're going to see that none of my quartz watches are being picked up by the mic. I typically see only a screen that shows nothing happening.

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    My suspicion is that the sofware has no problem picking up the sound of my mechanical watches (see previous images) but that the software just isn't able to hear my quartz watches, even with the preamp gain full-on. It seems that the quartz watches are just too quiet for this type of mic. Of course, this is all guessing on my part, as I'm not getting any clear error message out of the software. That is to say, maybe I just don't know what I should be looking for.

    Thanks.

  2. #382
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    Quote Originally Posted by coralnut View Post
    Sure... though I'm not quite sure of what you're asking for -- I'm familiar with taking snapshots but I'm not aware of a recording mode in the software. If you could explain exactly what you'd like me to do, I'd be happy to do it. My suspicion though, is that we're going to see that none of my quartz watches are being picked up by the mic. I typically see only a screen that shows nothing happening.

    My suspicion is that the sofware has no problem picking up the sound of my mechanical watches (see previous images) but that the software just isn't able to hear my quartz watches, even with the preamp gain full-on. It seems that the quartz watches are just too quiet for this type of mic. Of course, this is all guessing on my part, as I'm not getting any clear error message out of the software. That is to say, maybe I just don't know what I should be looking for.

    Thanks.
    Download Audacity (it's free) and make a recording though that.
    contrate_wheel and oso2276 like this.

    My YouTube Channel for watch modding and I​nstagram for (mostly) Russian watches

  3. #383
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    Quote Originally Posted by 24h View Post
    Download Audacity (it's free) and make a recording though that.
    Thanks.

    @coralnut: as 24h says, just make an audio recording with whatever program (Audacity is excellent, and probably you have it in Fedora). Use the same mic setup that you would with tg.
    oso2276 likes this.

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  5. #384
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    Any recommendation for a low cost microphone I could buy? I wanted to buy piezo clip (as it is stated in pdf user's guide) but it has not 3,5 mm jack which I could use with my computer (just like any other microphone).

  6. #385
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    Hi blackarrow,

    if you want to verify, that a piezo mic is really insufficient without an amplifier, you can search for a 6,3mm mono to 3,5mm strereo adaptor (in which I had no luck). Mono to stereo adaptor for the reason of definitely not shorting right channel to ground.
    If you are familiar with soldering, then just use a 3,5mm stereo jack and solder it to the cable instead of the 6,3mm mono. Or just cut the cable with jack from an old headphone and solder it to the pick up clip.

    br Klaus

  7. #386
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seahawk View Post
    I would like to thank the developer for the lovely software. I tried it with small 27mm piezo sensor (Clip on guitar sensors will be ok as well) and Kemo M040N preamp with 9v battery and I only could say WOW.
    Hi chaps,
    I got a Kemo M040n preamp.
    Has anyone got idea how to use it to make TG works? (some one here said used with TG, it was “WOW”)
    Last edited by Ciro; August 11th, 2018 at 20:44.

  8. #387
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    Quote Originally Posted by Klaus Tickalot View Post
    Hi blackarrow,

    if you want to verify, that a piezo mic is really insufficient without an amplifier, you can search for a 6,3mm mono to 3,5mm strereo adaptor (in which I had no luck). Mono to stereo adaptor for the reason of definitely not shorting right channel to ground.
    If you are familiar with soldering, then just use a 3,5mm stereo jack and solder it to the cable instead of the 6,3mm mono. Or just cut the cable with jack from an old headphone and solder it to the pick up clip.

    br Klaus
    Thanks. I managed to find some pickup microphone on eBay, but not sure if they will work properly.

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    It has a standard 3,5 mm jack.

    However, if I look up my microphone jack on the Microsoft Surface it is combined jack for microphone & earphones. Is this a problem if I have combined jack only?

  9. #388
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    Hi,

    Any one got idea why when using TG, it keeps all the time like this:
    Rock-steady -1739 s/d 00ms 000deg
    The rest (paper strip emulator, scape cycles windows and waveform), seem working and changing constantly.

  10. #389
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    Quote Originally Posted by contrate_wheel View Post
    Thanks.

    @coralnut: as 24h says, just make an audio recording with whatever program (Audacity is excellent, and probably you have it in Fedora). Use the same mic setup that you would with tg.
    Sorry for the delayed reply.

    I am familiar with Audacity, but I have't been able to use it lately due to a library incompatibility problem that's come along with a recent software upgrade. The result is that when I attempt to record, Audacity does not use the sampling rate and bit depth that I specify and the results turn out to be unpredictable and inconsistent. Once I have it working again, what settings do you require as recording defaults?

    Back to the subject of calibration -- I'm having trouble understanding why we have a quartz-referenced calibration procedure in the first place, for two reasons:

    First, Quartz isn't all that accurate. That is to say, Quartz is better than most mechanical movements, but it's nowhere near as accurate as a computer clock that's running at megahertz frequencies. Quartz watch accuracy is on the order of +/- 500 milliseconds/day. Although that's better than many mechanical movements, 1/2 spd isn't a good accuracy reference if you're trying to measure a watch that has an accuracy on the order of 2 spd. The Nyquist theorem tells us that sampling at 2x the desired frequency is the absolute minimum acceptable standard. With a quartz reference we barely have enough accuracy to measure the performance of a mechanical chronometer with a resolution of +/- 2 spd.

    Second, any modern computer is equipped with a Network Time Protocol based system clock that operates at megahertz frequency. My plain-Jane Fedora system uses Chronyd, which performs regular time-syncs, polling it's upstream time server every 2^6 seconds, and between polls it automatically compensates for any skew in the system clock. The following query shows that the NTP-calibrated system clock on my PC is 1.78 nanoseconds slow of NST.gov's atomic NTP time as I type this:

    Code:
    # chronyc tracking                                                                                                  
    Reference ID    : 0A0A0A01 (*********)
    Stratum         : 2
    Ref time (UTC)  : Mon Aug 13 22:58:52 2018
    System time     : 0.000001780 seconds slow of NTP time
    Last offset     : -0.000003389 seconds
    RMS offset      : 0.000005357 seconds
    Frequency       : 37.157 ppm fast
    Residual freq   : -0.002 ppm
    Skew            : 0.077 ppm
    Root delay      : 0.036606569 seconds
    Root dispersion : 0.047560256 seconds
    Update interval : 64.6 seconds
    Leap status     : Normal
    
    Nanosecond resolution is millions of times higher resolution than millisecond resolution. Using a quartz based reference that has accuracy on the order of 500 msec doesn't seem worth the effort when a call to the system clock can obtain time at 1.78 nsec resolution. That's actually a difference of what, 280 million times higher frequency?

    Given that any modern PC uses NTP time sycing (Microsoft, Apple or Linux, take your pick), nanosecond level time accuracy is available on any modern PC. I don't understand why the timing software is querying the soundcard clock as a time reference, as the soundcard clock is uncalibrated. It also doesn't make sense to me why the software expects a user to use a quartz-based calibration procedure using an external time source (watch) when polling the system clock would provide a reference source for calibration that's accurate to the nanosecond level and is presumably hundreds of millions of times more accurate. Polling the soundcard for timing seems like it would provide a lesser result than polling the system clock on any NTP-based PC system.

    I have to assume that I'm misunderstanding something. Thanks for your time.
    contrate_wheel likes this.

  11. #390
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    Re: Open source timing software.

    Quote Originally Posted by coralnut View Post
    Sorry for the delayed reply.

    I am familiar with Audacity, but I have't been able to use it lately due to a library incompatibility problem that's come along with a recent software upgrade. The result is that when I attempt to record, Audacity does not use the sampling rate and bit depth that I specify and the results turn out to be unpredictable and inconsistent. Once I have it working again, what settings do you require as recording defaults?

    Back to the subject of calibration -- I'm having trouble understanding why we have a quartz-referenced calibration procedure in the first place, for two reasons:

    First, Quartz isn't all that accurate. That is to say, Quartz is better than most mechanical movements, but it's nowhere near as accurate as a computer clock that's running at megahertz frequencies. Quartz watch accuracy is on the order of +/- 500 milliseconds/day. Although that's better than many mechanical movements, 1/2 spd isn't a good accuracy reference if you're trying to measure a watch that has an accuracy on the order of 2 spd. The Nyquist theorem tells us that sampling at 2x the desired frequency is the absolute minimum acceptable standard. With a quartz reference we barely have enough accuracy to measure the performance of a mechanical chronometer with a resolution of +/- 2 spd.

    Second, any modern computer is equipped with a Network Time Protocol based system clock that operates at megahertz frequency. My plain-Jane Fedora system uses Chronyd, which performs regular time-syncs, polling it's upstream time server every 2^6 seconds, and between polls it automatically compensates for any skew in the system clock. The following query shows that the NTP-calibrated system clock on my PC is 1.78 nanoseconds slow of NST.gov's atomic NTP time as I type this:

    Code:
    # chronyc tracking                                                                                                  
    Reference ID    : 0A0A0A01 (*********)
    Stratum         : 2
    Ref time (UTC)  : Mon Aug 13 22:58:52 2018
    System time     : 0.000001780 seconds slow of NTP time
    Last offset     : -0.000003389 seconds
    RMS offset      : 0.000005357 seconds
    Frequency       : 37.157 ppm fast
    Residual freq   : -0.002 ppm
    Skew            : 0.077 ppm
    Root delay      : 0.036606569 seconds
    Root dispersion : 0.047560256 seconds
    Update interval : 64.6 seconds
    Leap status     : Normal
    
    Nanosecond resolution is millions of times higher resolution than millisecond resolution. Using a quartz based reference that has accuracy on the order of 500 msec doesn't seem worth the effort when a call to the system clock can obtain time at 1.78 nsec resolution. That's actually a difference of what, 280 million times higher frequency?

    Given that any modern PC uses NTP time sycing (Microsoft, Apple or Linux, take your pick), nanosecond level time accuracy is available on any modern PC. I don't understand why the timing software is querying the soundcard clock as a time reference, as the soundcard clock is uncalibrated. It also doesn't make sense to me why the software expects a user to use a quartz-based calibration procedure using an external time source (watch) when polling the system clock would provide a reference source for calibration that's accurate to the nanosecond level and is presumably hundreds of millions of times more accurate. Polling the soundcard for timing seems like it would provide a lesser result than polling the system clock on any NTP-based PC system.

    I have to assume that I'm misunderstanding something. Thanks for your time.
    While I don't fully understand how a computer's clock functions related to the processor, I believe that in the case of watch timing software we are solely relying on the sound card clock.
    I find the best way to calibrate TG and Watch-O-Scope is to start a timing test for a quartz watch with an app like Toolwatch.io for an ENTIRE month while storing your watch somewhere with a consistent temperature.
    The readout in this app is your KNOWN RATE.

    For this example, let's say that the known rate is +0.4 s/d.
    Now, start a calibration in the software. We'll use a CALIBRATION readout of -0.6 s/d.
    Subtract KNOWN RATE from CALIBRATION.
    -0.6 - 0.4 = -1.0

    Since the software is effectively 1 second slow we need to correct it with a positive number.
    Enter the calibration value of +1.0 in the software.
    If your number after performing the subtraction is positive, use a negative number for the calibration value.
    Last edited by 24h; August 17th, 2018 at 19:27.
    contrate_wheel likes this.

    My YouTube Channel for watch modding and I​nstagram for (mostly) Russian watches

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