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  1. #11
    Member BarracksSi's Avatar
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    SBGX295 Second Hand Alignment?

    Quote Originally Posted by sonvolt View Post
    Guys, just as an example, here's the best image I could get of how the second hand is off at the 12 o'clock position.

    Attachment 14300653
    Yeah, that’s off by a smidge. It should be visible on the minute track, too. Someone will blame parallax, but I think you took the pic straight-on.

    My only analog quartz watch at the moment (not a GS) lands closer to the markers, but it’s barely a hair off to one side in one corner of the dial, then goes to the other side in the opposite corner — and seems dead-on in other areas.

    My guess is that there’s a bit of slack in the geartrain in my watch, and maybe gravity or momentum leaves the seconds hand to settle differently.

    It “averages” spot-on, though. It’s like the joke: three statisticians go hunting ducks. One shoots high and misses, the second shoots low and misses, the third yells, “We got ‘im!”

    I feel like it would bug me if that was my watch. I like GS for precise execution of details. But the earlier comment about being wary of sending it in just for them to say “it’s within spec” would make me hesitate.

  2. #12
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    Re: SBGX295 Second Hand Alignment?

    Thanks. I've sent the pic and explanation to Seiya in Japan, where I purchased the watch, and asked for his guidance (send to Seiko, exchange, etc?). At this point, I'm hoping he offers an exchange as I've been reading about GS service work, and it sounds like a real crap shoot.

    DeWayne
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  3. #13
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    Re: SBGX295 Second Hand Alignment?

    Thanks. I've sent the pic and explanation to Seiya in Japan, where I purchased the watch, and asked for his guidance (send to Seiko, exchange, etc?). At this point, I'm hoping he offers an exchange as I've been reading about GS service work, and it sounds like a real crap shoot.

    DeWayne

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  5. #14
    Member BrianBinFL's Avatar
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    Re: SBGX295 Second Hand Alignment?

    This is one of the reasons I don't think I could own a 1 or 2 bps movement with "central seconds" and keep my sanity. I am annoyed by things such as this and even though nobody else would ever notice it would bother me.

    If it failed to hit every mark exactly the same way - for example if it was always a little "early" as shown in your picture, then I would think a local watchmaker could pull the battery to stop the movement, and simply take the seconds hand off and put it back on in proper alignment with a mark.

    But you said that in the 5-20 range it seems to hit the marks well and fails to hit them in the remainder of the range. I believe this means that even if the seconds hand were re-set to hit the top index perfectly then it would be off from 5-20.

    I think this is one of those things that must either be observed before purchase and avoided if present, or lived with if observing prior to purchase is not possible. Unless GS has stated somewhere that the 9F will hit the marks I don't think they will correct it under warranty. They might not even correct it for a fee as it may not be correctable.
    Grand Seiko SBGA375, Rolex 116610LN, and lots of comparatively economical watches that "spoke to me" - mostly Seiko.

  6. #15
    Member berni29's Avatar
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    Re: SBGX295 Second Hand Alignment?

    Hi

    This was my 9f this evening, just happened to catch it on the 12 O’clock mark, it’s hit it pretty much spot on, but it does not hit every mark spot on for sure.

    Better than yours definitely though.

    I have also tried a few on at AD’s and have noticed that they do not always hit the marks. But that is to my eyes.




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  7. #16
    Member bluedialer's Avatar
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    Re: SBGX295 Second Hand Alignment?

    Mine is off, more than yours, and I've heard enough to feel this is somewhat more common than we'd expect from GS. But those are expectations vs reality. Reality is we can expect the hand to be slightly off and it'll be considered within spec.

    I'm interested in what Seiya has to say, just because I expect he won't be that accommodating. He probably deals with this and bezel alignment complaints more than he can care. Before I purchased my SBGT241 from him, I asked about the hand hitting all markers perfectly and he basically said it's not possible to guarantee that. Sure enough, mine is off. I took the chance, so I accept it... in hindsight I might have been better off not asking about it.
    Maybe there is more accommodation if it's a non limited edition item.

    Anyway, this is one of the biggest myths of GS quartz. They are not perfect in hand alignment, no matter people will always chime in with "mine is perfect."

    For anyone who this is a dealbreaker for, buy only in person, or only buy if an online seller guarantees it'll align. Or at least be sure you can return it and are prepared to actually do so.

    To be honest, I hardly notice the misalignment on my watch anymore when in use and I'm glad to have it. However, I'm certainly not impressed that this is a thing with the great 9F quartz. And it definitely takes some luster off the piece for me. I'll stick with mechanical movements, ironically including my JL True Second which does align perfectly.
    Last edited by bluedialer; 1 Week Ago at 22:20.
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  8. #17
    Member BarracksSi's Avatar
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    Re: SBGX295 Second Hand Alignment?

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedialer View Post
    ... ironically including my JL True Second which does align perfectly.
    Heh! Saw one of those locally and it was absolutely dead-nuts-on.

    What’s funny is, of the reasonably-priced nonconventional movements out there, the two I want the most are Spring Drive and JLC’s True Second. New versus old, high-tech fusion versus artisan craftwork.
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  9. #18
    Member bluedialer's Avatar
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    Re: SBGX295 Second Hand Alignment?

    Quote Originally Posted by BarracksSi View Post
    Heh! Saw one of those locally and it was absolutely dead-nuts-on.

    What’s funny is, of the reasonably-priced nonconventional movements out there, the two I want the most are Spring Drive and JLC’s True Second. New versus old, high-tech fusion versus artisan craftwork.

    Though I thought it would make me more accepting of ticking seconds, I think that the TS helped ruin quartz ticks for me. On the mark, zero backlash, with a full length long seconds hand. It's a special movement, definitely more so than a Spring Drive, although that's not to say it's better than a Spring Drive. It's kind of like the Hi-Beat vs Spring Drive debate to an extreme.

    Anyway, no taking away from the great timekeeping of the 9F. I do use my SBGT241 to set my mechanicals. Even though it is technically running out of spec at about -7 sec/year

  10. #19
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    Re: SBGX295 Second Hand Alignment?

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedialer View Post
    Mine is off, more than yours, and I've heard enough to feel this is somewhat more common than we'd expect from GS. But those are expectations vs reality. Reality is we can expect the hand to be slightly off and it'll be considered within spec.
    Thanks for the honest assessment.

    To be perfectly honest, if this is the case, and GS Quartz watches are considered "acceptable" by GS (and by sellers of GS) with second hands that don't align perfectly, that is very disappointing, and probably ensures I'll never spend money on another GS (including automatic/mechanical). The polishing on this GS Quartz is indeed beautiful, and the time-keeping is no doubt a cut-above (we'll see). But realistically, the two factors that caused me to spend almost $2,000 on a quartz watch were the +/-10SPY accuracy, and the second hand which, purportedly, aligns perfectly with the markers. To me, those two distinctions were worth the money. You take one of those factors away, and I see a quartz movement in a very pretty case - not much more. I'll still be replacing batteries at 3 years, just like my 20+ year old Swiss Wenger field watch, with an ETA quartz movement that shows no signs of tiring (albeit with a second hand that probably doesn't hit a single marker accurately! But that Wenger cost me maybe $120 back in '95.

    Anyway, thanks for the counsel. I'll report back what Seiya says on this. I'm prepared to keep the watch and enjoy it, but sadly, not as much as I would have if it did what it was reputed to do. That turns out to be a rather expensive lesson and honestly, leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

    Thanks,
    DeWayne

  11. #20
    Member berni29's Avatar
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    SBGX295 Second Hand Alignment?

    Hi

    Over on the HAQ forum someone has done a lengthy (and HQ) review of two GS 9f’s, and says in the dial section of the review:

    “The jeweler explained me that he was told that the GS dials are somewhat hand made and this explains the small deviations of the hands vs the indices. I don't know if this is true but this could be a good explanation to the fact that the hands alignment is very good but not constant all around the dial. For sure it is very good but at a close look you can see small deviations here and there, even if nothing to be annoyed”

    If aspects of the dial are hand applied then perhaps this is an explanation.

    I guess if similar technology as silicone wafer production was used then near “ perfection” might be the result.

    Berni



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