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  1. #351
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    Re: Is Ginault legitimate? Let's discuss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avo View Post
    Current wording at ginault.com:


    https://ginault.com/ginault-caliber-7275/
    Thanks.

    Somehow, that level of BS amazes me more than anything else.

  2. #352
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    Re: Is Ginault legitimate? Let's discuss.

    Quote Originally Posted by borology View Post
    I have, and I even stated regardless of quality, I do think, if you acknowledge that a brand is openly lying and deceiving and still make the decision to support that ethos, it does reflect your integrity. Again, beyond the actual quality of the product, that's not the point.
    So what you’re saying here, that if a person is now aware of the “facts” as per the DD-report, AND they subsequently purchase a Ginault, they lack integrity?

    What about before knowing the “facts”, let say the person purchased one 2 years ago. Did they have integrity when making the purchase? And what about after learning the facts 2 years later... what should they do to maintain their integrity???

  3. #353
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    Re: Is Ginault legitimate? Let's discuss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avo View Post
    Current wording at ginault.com:


    https://ginault.com/ginault-caliber-7275/
    This link is quite informative and there's a good hi-rez vid of the movement in action at the end

    Ginault Caliber 7275 Watch Movement | CaliberCorner.com

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  5. #354
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    Re: Is Ginault legitimate? Let's discuss.

    Quote Originally Posted by DouglasI View Post
    So what you’re saying here, that if a person is now aware of the “facts” as per the DD-report, AND they subsequently purchase a Ginault, they lack integrity?

    What about before knowing the “facts”, let say the person purchased one 2 years ago. Did they have integrity when making the purchase? And what about after learning the facts 2 years later... what should they do to maintain their integrity???
    I think their original pitch was pretty transparently BS if even viewed with a modicum of a critical eye, though, when people set out to deceive, people will be deceived. If someone was truly deceived by a liar, I wouldn't place any blame on them. Though, the purpose of this thread isn't to validate or justify why people bought them.

    If you were deceived, no harm no foul. If you knowingly supported a deceitful business, I think that's a poor thing to do on behalf of the industry.

  6. #355
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    Re: Is Ginault legitimate? Let's discuss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alysandir View Post
    Haven't read through all the posts; reading the first 100 posts was enough to give me an idea where this was going. As such, this has probably already been said, but...

    The big question I've always had about Ginault is how one can make a blatant copy of another company's intellectual property and sell it, so long as you call it a "homage?" And further, how does one defend that practice with a straight face? People think it's okay for Rolex to be the victim of IP theft because they don't like their pricing structure? That Rolex somehow "deserves" this? Power to the proletariat, I guess.

    I remember when Ginault first started popping up here, and it certainly looked very convincing, but when I - or anyone for that matter - asked pointed questions about the design, certain members of the forum (and one in particular whom I shall not name) attacked anyone asking questions or making comments that were not 100% in glowing praise of the brand or the product. That, to me, was the broken straw that suggested this was a brand that I was not comfortable doing business with, no matter how well-made or quality-laden their product might be. If you are expected to buy a product with no questions asked, that's enough for me to steer clear.

    So at the risk of inviting the same flaming as before....no, I do not think Ginault is legit, and that was before I became aware of a possible connection to a known counterfeiter. Now that I've read the report - and yes, I believe a lot of the evidence presented is circumstantial - there's enough smoke there to constitute beyond reasonable doubt to me.

    But hey, who am I? I've just learned this week alone that I supposedly support mass consumerism, a widening income gap, because I own a watch above $1000. My opinion can't be all that valuable.

    Regards,
    Alysandir
    Alysandir,

    On the contrary, your opinion is very well-stated.

    Markets are markets and the freedom to value things of all sorts is the privilege of those willing to part with other things of value; I would never argue this. I have a strong bias which I willingly admit to, derived only from standing in an active market that was entirely stocked with fakes - blatantly forged, brand-labeled replicas, manufactured as such. No pretense, no excuses. Forgeries. It is from this manufacturing center that one could reasonably conclude the seed capital [at least] and possibly current funding and manufacturing support occurs with regard to Ginault. That is a show-stopper.

    It's more than a little ironic that a product synonymous with it's country of origin ("Swiss Made" watches), is supported by anyone who claims a serious interest and enjoyment from that which only HONEST capitalism has made possible, by supplanting a forgery and it's money chain for the genuine article - in this case, an iconic timepiece.

    Aside: Just today, a new Submariner came up with my name on it... I'm quite serious and it will read as "convenient" for the purpose of my pedantic post, above, but it's true. If I buy it, I wonder if in a year or two someone might say: "Hey Dude, nice Ginault..."

  7. #356
    Avo
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    Re: Is Ginault legitimate? Let's discuss.

    Quote Originally Posted by borology View Post
    If you knowingly supported a deceitful business, I think that's a poor thing to do on behalf of the industry.
    So do you believe that Tiger Woods truly loves his Rolex? That the millions of dollars that Rolex pays him has nothing to do with it? That he used to love his Tag, back when Tag was paying him, and then, when Tag stopped paying him, he by total amazing coincidence, decided that his Special Tiger Woods Edition Tag wasn't so great after all, and that, again by total amazing coincidence, decided (after Rolex started paying him) that he really liked Rolex???

    Is that deceitful on the part of Rolex????

    My answer: yes.
    Sharper Image moonphase, Ronda 708 quartz (my only watch for 20+ years)
    Citizen BM8242-08E Ecodrive, black dial, gold-tone case
    Citizen AP1042-03A Ecodrive moonphase, white dial, gold-tone case
    Sartego Ocean Master SPA27, yellow dial, Miyota 8215
    Christopher Ward C5 Aviator Mark I, black dial, ETA 2824
    Chinese Mechanical Forum 2011 project watch, moonphase, Sea-Gull ST25
    Casio G-Shock AWGM100B-1A, analog solar atomic
    Kadloo Scubamarine, black dial, ETA 2824
    Aevig Huldra, orange dial, Miyota 9015
    Makara Hawksbill Sea Turtle, bronze case, maroon dial, Seiko NH35
    Ginault Ocean Rover, black dial, Ginault 7275
    Boldr Odyssey, white dial, Seiko NH35
    Borealis Portus Cale, white dial, Miyota 9015
    Hamtun Neon, full-lume dial, STP 1-11
    Vratislavia Conceptum Pan-Africa, green dial, Miyota 9015
    Vostoc Classica, white dial, Vostoc 2409.01
    Grails: RGM 801-PS-CE, GO PanoMaticLunar, ALS 1815 moonphase LE


  8. #357
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    Re: Is Ginault legitimate? Let's discuss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Porsche993 View Post
    it would be helpful to separate Ginault the legit company, from the owners previous activities. There is no evidence that TC was making rep watches post Dec 2016. Over-egging the omelette is Marketing 101. Ginault fell foul of the 'Made in USA' bar and quickly rectified the matter. I just don't get the snake oil reference. It was pretty obvious people knew what they were buying and accepted and looked beyond the fanciful marketing prose.
    This is a discussion thread - you've made that clear with your post, so let's see if folks will honor your request. I get your point.


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  9. #358
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    Re: Is Ginault legitimate? Let's discuss.

    Guys, let's drop the near-attack with your back and forth. Dial it back, please. You've made your points, both of you, now it's time to move on from that.


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  10. #359
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    Re: Is Ginault legitimate? Let's discuss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avo View Post
    So do you believe that Tiger Woods truly loves his Rolex? That the millions of dollars that Rolex pays him has nothing to do with it? That he used to love his Tag, back when Tag was paying him, and then, when Tag stopped paying him, he by total amazing coincidence, decided that his Special Tiger Woods Edition Tag wasn't so great after all, and that, again by total amazing coincidence, decided (after Rolex started paying him) that he really liked Rolex???

    Is that deceitful on the part of Rolex????

    My answer: yes.
    Are you likening celebrity advertising to lying about the source and production of the actual watch?

    That's beyond apples to oranges......

  11. #360
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    Re: Is Ginault legitimate? Let's discuss.

    Quote Originally Posted by borology View Post
    Sounds like you're taking this one personally...

    Dude is funded by illegal trade. Dude uses factories that perpetuate illegal trade.

    Dude lies, no, not just fancifies or over eggs the omelette, outright lies, to make his product more desirable. And that made in the USA nonsense? That's illegal too.

    So people either know and don't care, know and do care, or are deceived.

    "My product doesn't break any rules now, but it's funded by illegal activity and supports others pursuing illicit avenues." I'm not really cool with that. It's not great for the industry either. And how thirsty could people be for another sub-homage to enable feeding the counterfeit market and deceitful business practices?


    Supporting liars allows other liars to flourish and exist in the same space.

    Supporting counterfeiters and operations that produce counterfeits strengthens their position.

    These remarks are not false. This is what support Ginault does.
    Dude is funded by illegal trade.“ Where is the proof of that? Selling handful of reps per month equates to the funding for a start up? Or are inferring that any likely funding by the other listed managing member, Lonestar Capital Mgmt is illegal?

    Dude use factories that perpetuate legal trade.” Again, wrt to Ginault what proof is there? With respect to previous reps, the manufacture of replica items is not considered illegal within China, and copying is part of the culture. Taking on of parts manufacture for multiple companies is common and there’s bound to be some bleed through of product that is considered illegal in the west. (If you thing watches are bad, check out the guitar industry). In other words, just because a factory in a far off land that has totally different beliefs and values than yours, sometimes produces something YOU as a westerner consider illegal, you CANNOT tarnish the manufacturer. They are working with integrity within the morals and ethics of their society and governance and you cannot unilaterally impose yours.

    Dude lies, no, not just fancifies or over eggs the omelette, outright lies, to make his product more desirable.” As far as the Ginault website goes I don’t think there is anything there can be stated as an outright lie. Stretching the truth? Probably, but that’s what marketing and advertising is all about. With respect to off-web-site conversations and communications there indeed looks like there are some mistruths, especially regarding Tsung Chi’s involvement. However Joe Shopper at his website wouldn’t be expected to know that. And as far as delivering the promise of what is promoted on the website, again what conclusively has been proven false?
    Last edited by DouglasI; 1 Day Ago at 03:18.
    skuzapo likes this.

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