How can Seiko produce in-house movements so cheaply? - Page 3
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  1. #21
    Member sticky's Avatar
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    Re: How can Seiko produce in-house movements so cheaply?

    Leaving aside the issue of inflated Swiss prices the fact remains that Seiko produce watches by the truck load so economies of scale will come into play.
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  2. #22
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    Re: How can Seiko produce in-house movements so cheaply?

    I heard more than one watchmaker saying that the Submariner is really an excellent $800-1000 dollar watch....no more than that....
    It's unbelievable that many so called technical experts and enthusiasts do not understand the basic premises of the "psychology of pricing" and try to justify prices for certain items/brands with logical reasoning (not only in the watch world mind you)
    Last edited by saturno_v; February 5th, 2016 at 17:36.

  3. #23
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    Re: How can Seiko produce in-house movements so cheaply?

    Quote Originally Posted by boatofcar View Post
    How can Seiko produce a watch like the Alpinist so cheaply compared to European manufacturers? Is it because of the scale of their whole operations? Do sales of their cheap watches subsidize their more expensive models to some extent? Is it because wages in Europe are just that much more than Japan? I could even accept a 100% increase in price (around $7-800) for an equivalent German or Swiss-made watch with an in-house movement, but it doesn't seem like one exists with the fit and finish of the Alpinist, Cocktail Time, etc.
    Two words: Incredible Volume!

    The 6R15 is used is many different Seiko watches, and is really a refinement of other Seiko movements with an improved main spring material. Plus, the Swiss have very high labor costs and many brands have relatively low volume. Some Swiss brands just take an ETA design and make a few modifications, add a module or decorate the movement, and call it "in-house". If they can then charge mega dollars, why wouldn't they? Grand Seiko "9" series movements are not that cheap, and are more comparable to the Swiss in-house movements.

    Additionally, Seiko/Sii/TMI also sells many of these movements to other smaller brands. The Seiko 4R35 is found in tons of Invicta watches as the NH35A. The Seiko 6R15 is also the Sii NE15, with subtle branding changes.
    Last edited by HoustonReal; February 6th, 2016 at 01:56.

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  5. #24
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    Re: How can Seiko produce in-house movements so cheaply?

    Well here's one for the dissenting view; you're all mostly talking about "volume" and comparing different things; simpler Seiko, Orient and Miyota movements w/o handwinding or hacking cannot compare to an ETA 2824. Even the 2842 which is the cheaper, 21.7k version, handwinds.

    Now, to return to the OP's specific question, a 6R15 is a 21.7k movement. An ETA 2824 is a 28.8k movement and that's a substantial difference which purportedly helps with different aspects of real-life accuracy. Seiko's own 28.8k movements are more expensive.
    There are also unseen differences in qualities between movements that cannot be deducted simply by looking with our bare eyes. Even individual factories may vary in their output as an in-depth comparison of swiss made 2824 vs Chinese clones revealed. (I haven't found a similar comparison online between an ETA and the 6R15 but if anyone has something in mind, please do share).

    My point is that relatively small gains in manufacturing quality with watch movements may have a disproportional effect with pricing. My personal experience with ETAs (2842, 2824 and 2892) has been very good and very consistent with regards to situations, external temperatures and time; I can't say the same about cheaper Seiko/Miyota movements.
    Last edited by georgefl74; February 5th, 2016 at 19:13.
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  6. #25
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    Re: How can Seiko produce in-house movements so cheaply?

    Quote Originally Posted by X2-Elijah View Post
    …out-house watch…
    Quote Originally Posted by docvail View Post
    …'sparkly nuggets'.
    I really hope my out-house watch doesn't come with nuggets of any kind.
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  7. #26
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    Re: How can Seiko produce in-house movements so cheaply?

    Quote Originally Posted by brandon\ View Post
    I really hope my out-house watch doesn't come with nuggets of any kind.
    I'm not sure "out-house" was the best choice of word to describe (watch) movements.
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  8. #27
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    Re: How can Seiko produce in-house movements so cheaply?

    Quote Originally Posted by svorkoetter View Post
    I'm not sure "out-house" was the best choice of word to describe (watch) movements.
    Ha! Entirely intentional, tbh. A wee reference to how some brands (and people in some subforums / other watch fora) seem to tout the in-houseness of in-house movements as something nearly magical - a point of superiority all by itself. As if everything not in-house belonged in the loo...

    (Which, of course, is straight rubbish. I maintain that "in-house" in and of itself means exactly diddly squat towards the actual capabilities of a movement.)
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  9. #28
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    Re: How can Seiko produce in-house movements so cheaply?

    i prefer to have all my movements in house...
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  10. #29
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    Re: How can Seiko produce in-house movements so cheaply?

    The 6r15 is NOT the equivalent of the basic 2824.

    The 6r20 is.
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  11. #30
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    Re: How can Seiko produce in-house movements so cheaply?

    Quote Originally Posted by atarione View Post
    i prefer to have all my movements in house...
    That's funny.


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