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How does ETA 2824-2, Seikos 7S26, and Orients movement compare?

43K views 41 replies 22 participants last post by  Racontour313 
#1 ·
Like the title says, how does ETA's 2824-2, Seikos 7S26 and Orients movements compare?

What Orient movement compares to these other two mentioned?

Thanks!
 
#2 ·
I'm no pro, but I believe Orient is a subsidiary of Seiko and they basically have the same movements? As for Seiko vs ETA well, you get hand winding and hacking on an ETA. Price vs Durability would go toward the 7S26. Some will disagree but I'd put up ETA for better accuracy.
 
#3 ·
I'm no pro, but I believe Orient is a subsidiary of Seiko and they basically have the same movements?
Not so. Orient has its own in-house movements.

And my own personal belief is that most of the difference between these 3 would be in someone's head. The 7s26 is the venerable workhorse of the Seiko line and I find it very, very difficult to believe the ETA would best it in durability or "quality" as it pertains to function. Orient's movements are less tested in this way, being such a smaller line of product, but you don't hear too much on the negative front about them either.

As was said though, the ETA affords hacking and hand winding. That does matter to some, although I would probably argue that those features definitely are not worth the premium you pay on an automatic movement. But, that's me. Most of the ETA appeal, for me, is what I like to call the "Lexus factor", and that is a startlingly similar product with the of peace of mind that goes along with a more "luxurious" reputation. Not to knock it, of course, as it's also a time tested movement.
 
#9 ·
The 2824 blows the 7S26 and the Orient movements outta the water. And don't let the Swiss-haters get you down- it's a very rugged and dependable movement. The Cal. 17 in my Breitling is 2824 based, and it's taken quite a few shocks and knocks, to no ill effect (and still maintaining chronometre-grade accuracy.) This, coupled with the fact that it is higher-beat, has more jewels, hacks, and handwinds, beats anything the Japanese have at the same price point. The 6R15 comes close, but no cigar (lower beat rate, IIRC.)
But if you're interested in affordable automatic movements, I strongly suggest you check out the Chinese.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Just for info, there's 6R20 version that beats at 28800 bph.

AFAIK feature wise, it's on par with 2824 though Seiko 6R series is based on 7S26 (added an auto winding bridge, hacking, and handwinding). Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit:
I forgot that 6R series doesn't have instant day/date change. So it's -1 point against 2824 feature wise.
 
#11 ·
The seiko 7s26 is a great movement that is under appreciated. It is a very robust movement that is very durable. Seiko is notorious for making watches that can run for many years without service. If you doubt Seiko's ability to make good movements look to the 6309 still valued today 40 years later. I appreciate my Seiko movement's as much as my swiss 2824(Breitling Steelfish). Sure it doesn't hack or hand wind but it keeps great time and that what is really important right??

Seiko's price for what you get can not be beat in any watch made today.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Very interesting. Thanks for the posts.
I have a little bit of experience with the ETA 2824-2 movement in my Tissot le Locle. (I've only had it for a week or so)
I'm a fan of timepieces from all different companies and countries (Swiss, Japanese, Russian etc.). So I'm not completely devout to anything in particular. Having said that, I prefer watches with in-house movements (such as Orient's) or movements that are at least manufactured in their country of origin (i.e. ETA, Miyota). For example, Seiko's Orange monster is universally regarded as a durable, affordable, and usable timepiece. But the fact that the movement is made in Malaysia and it is cased in China turns me off. I realize that there might be no difference in quality, but that is just the way I feel about it.

Although I have never seen one, I'm sure a Seiko Spirit is a great watch. As well as Orients large selection.

I believe I've seen Seiko SKX007j, which is very reputable Japanese diver that is built and cased in Japan. And, correct me if I'm wrong, uses the 7S26 movement, only it's made in Japan? What are your guys thoughts on that watch?

Thanks again for your posts.
 
#14 ·
Very interesting. Thanks for the posts.
I have a little bit of experience with the ETA 2824-2 movement in my Tissot le Locle. (I've only had it for a week or so)
I'm a fan of timepieces from all different companies and countries (Swiss, Japanese, Russian etc.). So I'm not completely devout to anything in particular. Having said that, I prefer watches with in-house movements (such as Orient's) or movements that are at least manufactured in their country of origin (i.e. ETA). For example, Seiko's Orange monster is universally regarded as a durable, affordable, and usable timepiece. But the fact that the movement is made in Malaysia and it is cased in China turns me off. I realize that there might be no difference in quality, but that is just the way I feel about it.

Although I have never seen one, I'm sure a Seiko Spirit is a great watch. As well as Orients large selection.

I believe I've seen Seiko SKX007j, which is very reputable Japanese diver that is built and cased in Japan. And, correct me if I'm wrong, uses the 7S26 movement, only it's made in Japan? What are your guys thoughts on that watch?

Thanks again for your posts.
You cant go wrong with the J models. For an extra 30 bucks or so you can be sure its made in Japan. I love my skx009j great watch, great accuracy, smooth bezel action, great lume, and at that price point I am not afraid to take it anywhere:-!

 
#19 ·
In most measures the 2824 is superior to the 7s and comparable from Orient, but it is also considerably more expensivse and these these movements have the two classes different intended markets.

Orient makes a lot of differnt movements, but the basic fundamental model is the 46943. It is a derivative of the vintage Seiko 700x caliber.

Seiko's 6r15/20 movement is comparable enough to the 2824 that people will argue endlessly on watch forums about the superiority of one over the other.

Orient introduced a hacking and handwinding movement a couple of years ago, but I am not aware of any technical details to know how it compares to the others. I suspect it isn't very far away.
 
#23 ·
I have Swiss auto's, Seiko and Orient and they are all very good movements, Orient makes one very nice automatic movement that is very accurate though not wound by the crown they usuallly power up just by wearing faster and most of the ones I have have a power reserve. And besides Orient movements are in house, and when alot of companies were
trending quartz Orient kept on putting out Automatics so they are very good at it. I like all their movements I just think that Orient give you so much bang for the buck and almost any one who has one will agree, as least that has been my experience
 
#25 · (Edited)
Orient has hacking and winding autos as well, my next planned purchase is an Orient Constellation, it hacks and winds and has a gmt function. It would be nice to see some testing done on 10-20 year old Swiss and Japanese movements along with their respected Chinese clones.
I know the Swiss fans would claim dominance, but honestly my miyota and seiko have been more accurate than my few Swiss made autos..... Tiny sample I know. And my Croton after repair, cough , actually works well with what we are guessing is a miyota clone, due to the hacking that the 8015 never had.
In a nutshell perhaps beauty, and value, is in the eye of the beholder?
 
#27 ·
Hmm, I have both japanese and swiss movements and prefer the swiss. I would compare the orient and seiko movements as I IMHO consider the 2824-2 a step up between the three. With that being said and as stated, seiko does have the 6r15that is more comparable even tho it has less beats than the 2824-2 and that will be a better comparison. Now if you want a seiko spring drive movement, that is in a whole other league than the aforementioned.
 
#29 ·
LOL, I said to myself, "what is he talking about?" Then I realize a few posts back with a "2010" date..

jajjaja
 
#30 · (Edited)
It is nice to revisit some older threads like these, that remain as reference material for many watch buyers today. I would like to add a point that seems to have been overlooked. When comparing the movements, I think it helps to realize the purpose the designers had in mind. With the Seiko 7S, the first attribute was economy and ease of assembly, followed by durability/reliability and little need for service. It has been reported that these movements have run reliably for up to 20 years without service. It was made in 1996 to refine its 7009 predecessor, and simplify it for automated production. The movement itself remains quite simple with a small number of parts and design that is reliable, but now considered rather obsolete in advanced, modern movement design. Some gears in the 7S and the date wheels are made from plastic, as with many of Seiko's quartz movements. These are said to be less susceptible to seizing up as the lubricants degrade, keeping the movements running more smoothly as they age. Tissot and Certina also have plastic parts in their Powermatic 80 movements in the escape wheel and lever. Both movements are considered to be non-servicable and replaced at the end of their service lives. In contrast, regular ETA movements are designed to be serviceable. Performance and accuracy was a lower priority in the Seiko 7S design when compared with the ETA 2824. The Seiko movements are unadjusted, and while acceptable, accuracy varies significantly from piece to piece. The amplitude and beat rate is lower than the ETA, which tend to lead to less accuracy. However, it does lead to less wear and need for service. In addition, the rate varies significantly through out the day, depending on amount of wind, and position of watch. The watch is much more susceptible to this than the ETA 2824, which was built also built with economical assembly in mind, but without a sacrifice in performance/reliability. Originally, the ETA 2824 was designed in 1971 (about the time of the Seiko 7S) as a movement for lower end watches. It's design dates to the 1950s. Due to it's economical production features, the 2824 was able to withstand the quartz crisis of the 1980s. Since it was one of few surviving mass market Swiss Mechnicals, it was improved with the 2824-2 in 1981 and offered on a wide range of watches, up to some very expensive models. The standard ETA base finishing is superior to Seiko's minimal industrial finishing, and ETA offers optional elabore finishing to high Swiss standards at extra cost. Seiko only offers comparable high end finishing on their most expensive models, such as the Grand Seiko. The 7S has since been modified as the 4R and 6R series with addition of a rotor bridge that allows for hand winding, hacking, visual enhancements of beveled plates and more finished rotors to upgrade its look for more expensive models that often have an exhibition crystal. It offers slightly better "Geneva Stripes" finishing on movements and rotors like the 6L, which kind of mimic the finishing of the Grand Seiko Movements.

As far as the Orient movements, the current F6922 movement is a refinement upon their legacy 46943 movement, which like the Seiko 7S is also regarded as a low-cost, durable, reliable movement with acceptable accuracy. But, it's design seems to be based on older Seiko movements from the sixties, like the 4006. Not that that's a bad thing, since that's a bit more like the ETA 2824. I prefer the look of Orient's sand-blasted finish to Seiko's brushed finishes. Orient watches seemed to be a better value, offering the same quality as entry-level Seiko's at a much lower price.

The ETA 2824 is definately the more advanced design.

Here is a nice website with teardowns on many popular movements.

Auto part

Seiko 7S26A movement with plastic gears and Date wheel.
 
#31 ·
C07 (Powermatic 80) movements are serviceable. Problem is, they require special procedures and tools to regulate, which may make it more cost effective to replace than to service.

Seiko movements do have some plastic parts but they are only in the calendar works, not in the actual timekeeping power train. That's not as daring as a plastic escapement as found in the C07. It's too early to tell if those escapements will be a benefit or a problem long term. Being as these movements essentially have to be sent to Swatch Group for service, and they will more likely replace than repair these movements, we may not get much data on that.

The 2824 (and C07 by virtue of being 90% the same parts) is by far a superior movement to the Seiko 7S/4R/6R or Orient F69 movements in just about every measure. You get what you pay for.


Also, the bits upthread about where Seikos are made were pretty hilarious. My Tissot and Hamilton both say "Hong Kong" inside the case back. I try not to factor nationalism or ethnicism into my shopping. That's a great way to throw money away.
 
#32 · (Edited)
Also, the bits upthread about where Seikos are made were pretty hilarious. My Tissot and Hamilton both say "Hong Kong" inside the case back. I try not to factor nationalism or ethnicism into my shopping. That's a great way to throw money away.
This "Hong Kong" labelling did come up in the Calvin Klein KS53414X that I used to cannibalise a 2824-2 for a movement swap with my Tissot PR 100 Powermatic 80 Questions about ETA C07 (Powermatic 80, H-10, etc.)

My Watchmaker: "Swatch Group are making some parts in China"
Me: "I heard! They're labelled Hong Kong like this ring tho. Where on earth does Swatch have a factory in Hong Kong?! Land is so pricey and labour isn't cheap, where did they site a factory or workshop?!"
My watchmaker: "They didn't. First they probably OEMed this piece, and in any case it's highly unlikely the OEM made it here. The OEM stretched made in Hong Kong rules and actually made it in China."

15569117
 
#33 ·
The 7s26 is antiquated, doesn't hand wind or hack. The one in my SKX was dreadful when I go it, and gained 35 seconds a day. I have since regulated it, and when fully wound it is spot on. Trouble is though that you have to wear it for a day before becomes accurate. The newer Orient movements are good, and comparable with the NH35. Now for the 4hz (28800 bph) movements. The ETA 2824 is on a totally different level all together. Even when the amplitude is low (not wound up) it will run accurately. Regulating them is as easy, as they have a micro adjustment screw at the end of the timing arm. The ETA derivatives are also excellent, such as the Sellita. STP 1-11 and the PT5000. Another one to consider is the Miyota 9000 series, which are considered the Japanese version of the ETA2824.
 
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#39 ·
About Orient & Seiko; Seiko Epson conglomerate holds both Seiko and Orient as well as the Epson computer/printer name, Seiko Medical imaging, Seiko Life Sciences, etc., etc. etc. The only Seiko powered Orients were/are the quartz models. Orient used Citizen Eco-drive movements in their solar models.

Epson integrated Orient entirely in 2017 but it has not replaced the Orient production facilities, they are wholly separate from Seiko production or Citizen/Miyota production.

The Epson(Orient) movements are produced in Akita Japan (Orient Star) and Tokyo (regular F6 and F4 calibers). The only non-Japan produced movements that I'm aware of are the 469 licensed calibers from Brazil. And Orient Brazil imports the F6 & F4 from Japan for their other BDM models.
 
#40 ·
About Orient & Seiko; Seiko Epson conglomerate holds both Seiko and Orient as well as the Epson computer/printer name, Seiko Medical imaging, Seiko Life Sciences, etc., etc. etc. The only Seiko powered Orients were/are the quartz models. Orient used Citizen Eco-drive movements in their solar models.

Epson integrated Orient entirely in 2017 but it has not replaced the Orient production facilities, they are wholly separate from Seiko production or Citizen/Miyota production.

The Epson(Orient) movements are produced in Akita Japan (Orient Star) and Tokyo (regular F6 and F4 calibers). The only non-Japan produced movements that I'm aware of are the 469 licensed calibers from Brazil. And Orient Brazil imports the F6 & F4 from Japan for their other BDM models.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking ;)
 
#41 ·
Have you ever taken apart an Orient F6 movement? It's pretty much a revived Seiko Suwa (Epson) 6000 series movement from the 1970s.

As for the quartz Orients, Epson has been making quartz movements, including solar, for decades. There's no reason for them to be sourcing them from SII or Miyota these days, though it makes sense Orient may have done that before the merger. Many Seiko branded quartz movements are actually Epson movements, particularly the solar and chronograph movements.

 
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