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  1. #21
    Member dreamwrx's Avatar
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    Re: STP and Soprod Movement Sources

    Thank you all for your insights and experience. I will definitely try the new miyota 9015 movement.
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  2. #22
    Member AC81's Avatar
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    Re: STP and Soprod Movement Sources

    Quote Originally Posted by dreamwrx View Post
    Thank you all for your insights and experience. I will definitely try the new miyota 9015 movement.
    Just remember though, that a 9015 won't fit into a case made for a 2824 as teh stem heights are different.

  3. #23
    Member dreamwrx's Avatar
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    Re: STP and Soprod Movement Sources

    I did some searching on here and it may actually be possible to swap an eta 2824-2 with a miyota 9015. In theory...

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    In Rotation: Orient Bambino V2, Bulova Accutron II Surveyor, Seiko SNZH5X FFF Vintage Mod, Franken Tudor Big Rose White Dial 5513, TC5508 Big Crown BSHT
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    FTYH- Yellow Tudor Hydronaut Dial, ETA 2824-2 Top, HR 6538 Case
    BSHT Seamonster 300 - Modded BSHT Seamaster Homage dial & Hands, ETA 2824 Clone, Seamaster Homage Case
    Franken TBBRS - Black Tudor Big Rose Dial, ETA 2824-2 Elabore, Parnis 40mm Case

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  5. #24
    Member AC81's Avatar
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    Re: STP and Soprod Movement Sources

    Quote Originally Posted by dreamwrx View Post
    I did some searching on here and it may actually be possible to swap an eta 2824-2 with a miyota 9015. In theory...

    Sent via telepathic waves.
    Theoretically yes, practically. No.

    Make sure you know what your gonna do to get it fitted first, otherwise you'll end up with a jumble of watch parts you can't do anything with.

    The difference is around 1mm in stem height, that means you need to find that space with a spacer either behind the dial with 1mm longer pinions, or you need a 1mm spacer infront of the dial.
    I think the miyota 82XX series can be a drop in replacement for 2824 (although not tried it personally). Make sure your not getting mixed information. The 82XX series is not a like for like drop in for the 90XX series.

    http://miyotamovement.com/pdf/draw_9015.pdf

    http://miyotamovement.com/pdf/draw_8205.pdf
    Last edited by AC81; November 6th, 2018 at 21:43.

  6. #25
    Member yankeexpress's Avatar
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    Re: STP and Soprod Movement Sources

    OT, continuing the thread hijack...

    The Soprod A-10/M100 is a Seiko design, possibly the old Seiko 4L25, and not related to ETA in any way.

    Damaged 2824 wheel photo from a WUS thread about handwinding issues:



    Relative size of the wheel comparison, it's tiny and vulnerable:



    Hand winding a 2824 movement has definitely caught the attention of many owners.

    https://forums.watchuseek.com/f2/eta...e-2322506.html

    https://forums.watchuseek.com/f6/f6-...ad-866942.html

    https://forums.watchuseek.com/f2/eta...on-847082.html
    fully-wind-new-2824-2-a-808693.html[/url]

    Pertinent quote:
    "However: don't wind up your 2824. Rather, it is designed to be autowound, with a manual wind as a backup, not as primary winding method.

    Why? The teeth of the winding mechanism are not hardened, as they were designed to only be used as a backup, rather than as the primary winding method. If you make a habit of winding up the 2824 manually, you will slowly start to degrade the hand-wind mechanism and it will, after an indeterminate time, fail. If you want a hand-wind watch, get one with the 2804 instead, as the winding mechanism here is hardened properly (if I am not mistaken, the winding mechanism of the 2804 uses stainless steel gears to wind, while the 2824 uses simple stamped steel gears for the same purpose)..........

    Seriously: I have had a 2824 watch fail on me (Fortis Pilot watch) because I was in the nervous habit of giving the movement a few winds whenever I felt like it. The winding mechanism really is not designed for long-term hand winding, and after wearing it for 3 years constantly a gear lost a tooth, which ended in the hairspring and damaged it enough for both the winding mechanism and the hairspring needing to be replaced. The watchmaker I used at the time said that there was no reason for it to have failed unless I was fiddling with it. ETA designs their movements very carefully to control costs and as the winding mechanism on the 2824 is a back-up, rather than a prime component, it was not designed to be used as a prime mechanism.

    This does not apply to the 2893 or the 7750."

    More quotes from previous 2824 issue threads:

    Another watchmaker opinion about handwinding automatics:

    “ETA part 410 - the winding pinion. I’ve had to order this part at least three times for movements I’ve used in my builds. This winding pinion wears down, whether by design or not, this part does not hold up well to regular use (hand winding)... I’d posit that eta 27/28xx auto movements are not meant for heavy hand winding by even eta itself as the winding mechanisms on their non auto variants of the 27/28xx series are different.

    Furthermore, I find that, generally speaking, movements that are handwound tend to have thicker gauge .11mm stems as opposed to the more common .9mm stems found in auto movements. I’d imagine this is to deal with the heavier pressures the stem has to deal with. So, can you hand wind an auto, sure, but if it’s auto why not make it perform as it was designed to? My personal practice with an auto is I might give it a few winds to start them up but then I just make wearing them do the rest of the work.”

    Another experience with handwinding automatics:

    “So there are many, many watches where the hand-winding mechanism (including the stem, gears and reversing mechanisms) represent a "weak link" in the system. But that doesn't mean it's a flaw that must be fixed, because it's not intended to be the primary power source.

    Hence, the addition of the rotor and gears to create and provide the consumer with an automatic watch.

    Is this to say that hand winding automatic watches is akin to playing Russian Roulette with your watch... no.

    But it's not a myth that in many watches this system is a weak link and subject to failure much more frequently than the rotor driven power mechanism.

    As a long time owner/collector I can testify to stripped gears, failed stems (and also dislodge) and also experienced failure in the manual reversing mechanisms as well.”
    watchcrank likes this.

  7. #26
    Member dreamwrx's Avatar
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    Re: STP and Soprod Movement Sources

    As the OP... I whole heartedly love threadjacks that shares important knowledge with the forum.

    From what I understand, the Soprod A10/M100 was, like you said, is not based off the ETA 2824 design. In fact its more of the ETA 2892 competitor. Their newest one, the M-800, is deisgned to directly replace the ETA 2824.

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  8. #27
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    Re: STP and Soprod Movement Sources

    Quote Originally Posted by AC81 View Post
    I've made watches using the SW200-1, and serviced 2824s. The handwinding part is the same, so much so i wouldn't mind betting the parts are interchangable.
    Any link to show exactly what they've done?
    Sellita Caliber SW200 VS. SW200-1 Watch Movement | CaliberCorner.com

    https://forums.watchuseek.com/f2/sel...-a-873049.html
    dreamwrx likes this.

  9. #28
    Member dreamwrx's Avatar
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    Re: STP and Soprod Movement Sources

    Apparently upgrading the SW200-1 parts doesn't 100% ensure that the movement is better either.
    In Rotation: Orient Bambino V2, Bulova Accutron II Surveyor, Seiko SNZH5X FFF Vintage Mod, Franken Tudor Big Rose White Dial 5513, TC5508 Big Crown BSHT
    In the works:
    BSHT 369 Ranger - BSHT 369 Dial, Ranger Hands, ETA 2836 Clone, Riyi 36mm Case
    FTYH- Yellow Tudor Hydronaut Dial, ETA 2824-2 Top, HR 6538 Case
    BSHT Seamonster 300 - Modded BSHT Seamaster Homage dial & Hands, ETA 2824 Clone, Seamaster Homage Case
    Franken TBBRS - Black Tudor Big Rose Dial, ETA 2824-2 Elabore, Parnis 40mm Case

  10. #29
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    Re: STP and Soprod Movement Sources

    Quote Originally Posted by AC81 View Post
    Theoretically yes, practically. No.

    Make sure you know what your gonna do to get it fitted first, otherwise you'll end up with a jumble of watch parts you can't do anything with.

    The difference is around 1mm in stem height, that means you need to find that space with a spacer either behind the dial with 1mm longer pinions, or you need a 1mm spacer infront of the dial.
    I think the miyota 82XX series can be a drop in replacement for 2824 (although not tried it personally). Make sure your not getting mixed information. The 82XX series is not a like for like drop in for the 90XX series.

    http://miyotamovement.com/pdf/draw_9015.pdf

    http://miyotamovement.com/pdf/draw_8205.pdf
    I realized I never clarified myself. I meant to try a watch that has the 9015/90S5 movement not specifically in this case. But I may also try to see if its possible to Frankenstein a Miyota into an ETA space.

    Thanks for the info YE
    AC81 and yankeexpress like this.
    In Rotation: Orient Bambino V2, Bulova Accutron II Surveyor, Seiko SNZH5X FFF Vintage Mod, Franken Tudor Big Rose White Dial 5513, TC5508 Big Crown BSHT
    In the works:
    BSHT 369 Ranger - BSHT 369 Dial, Ranger Hands, ETA 2836 Clone, Riyi 36mm Case
    FTYH- Yellow Tudor Hydronaut Dial, ETA 2824-2 Top, HR 6538 Case
    BSHT Seamonster 300 - Modded BSHT Seamaster Homage dial & Hands, ETA 2824 Clone, Seamaster Homage Case
    Franken TBBRS - Black Tudor Big Rose Dial, ETA 2824-2 Elabore, Parnis 40mm Case

  11. #30
    Member docvail's Avatar
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    Re: STP and Soprod Movement Sources

    Quote Originally Posted by AC81 View Post
    Just remember though, that a 9015 won't fit into a case made for a 2824 as teh stem heights are different.
    Quote Originally Posted by AC81 View Post
    Theoretically yes, practically. No.

    Make sure you know what your gonna do to get it fitted first, otherwise you'll end up with a jumble of watch parts you can't do anything with.

    The difference is around 1mm in stem height, that means you need to find that space with a spacer either behind the dial with 1mm longer pinions, or you need a 1mm spacer infront of the dial.
    I think the miyota 82XX series can be a drop in replacement for 2824 (although not tried it personally). Make sure your not getting mixed information. The 82XX series is not a like for like drop in for the 90XX series.

    http://miyotamovement.com/pdf/draw_9015.pdf

    http://miyotamovement.com/pdf/draw_8205.pdf
    I'm with AC81 here. The stem heights are different enough to make me think it will matter.

    Here's the 9015 drawing, with what I'm pretty sure is the 1.53mm stem height highlighted in yellow:

    Name:  2018-11-07_16-56-01.png
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    And here's the STP1-11 which is a 2824-2 clone, with what I think is the 1.8mm stem height highlighted:

    Name:  2018-11-07_16-56-37.png
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Size:  119.1 KB

    I'm not sure what to make of the +/- 20, other than to guess that might be a potential difference from having or removing the date wheel, which might buy you 0.2mm clearance, maybe.

    The stated difference isn't 1mm, it's 0.27mm, which seems like a small number, until you've seen how something off by a microscopic amount can affect operation.
    yankeexpress likes this.
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