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  1. #2931
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by nepatriot View Post
    First, +10 or 12 second per day may be perfectly fine for that movement. I'd suggest starting with the manufacturer's overall specs for the movement rather than the timing sheet you received with the watch. That will give you a starting point for what is normal or abnormal, i.e. within manufacturer tolerances, for that movement. For example, a Seiko 6r15 tolerances are -15/+25; +12 would be well within specs for that movement.
    Ginault advertises their watches and being tested and adjusted to chronometer levels of accuracy over 6 weeks and, as noted, provide a test sheet to show those test results.

    Second, it does not sound like it was magnetized. As understand that, if it were magnetized, the swing would be minutes per hour, not seconds per day.
    Not necessarily. Depends on how powerful of a magnetic field it's been exposed to and/or duration of exposure. Repeated/prolonged exposures to relatively weak magnetic fields can add up to the same effect as a single brief exposure to a strong field. I forget which channel (LI Watch maybe?), but I've seen a video demonstrating magnetism and watches and the presenter exposed a watch to a strong magnet for a few seconds and then put it back on the timegrapher and it had sped up only by ~20 spd (and subsequent de-mag resulted in it returning very close to where it was at when they started). Reduced exposure could potentially result in a watch that was running ~+1 spd to speed up to ~+12 spd. Not outside of the realm of possibility.
    Last edited by MX793; March 25th, 2018 at 16:37.
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  2. #2932
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by Eye Doc View Post
    Thanks for your reply! I only wound the watch once when I first put it on. I set it to the US Naval Observatory Time. I am fairly active and take the watch off at night. I tried laying it crystal up, crystal down, crown up and down and these seems to make no difference. I usually let the watch run for a week, so the 10-12 sec. fast is an average for the full week.
    Perfect, sounds like you did the right things. If it were me, I'd take the +12, and run it a few months to see if it settles down. +10, or even a little less over time, is very good for a mechanical ... unless you paid for COSC.

    You may feel differently, and should do what ever makes you most satisfied with the watch. At the end of the day that's all that matters.
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  3. #2933
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by nepatriot View Post
    Perfect, sounds like you did the right things. If it were me, I'd take the +12, and run it a few months to see if it settles down. +10, or even a little less over time, is very good for a mechanical ... unless you paid for COSC.

    You may feel differently, and should do what ever makes you most satisfied with the watch. At the end of the day that's all that matters.
    While not COSC (since Ginault isn't Swiss, they can't get COSC certifications), part of what you pay for with Ginault is that additional testing and adjustment (proven by 6-day accuracy test reports shipped with each watch) to receive a watch running within chronometer level accuracy. If you don't care about that, Ginault offers a model that doesn't have that extra testing and adjustment for ~60% the price.

    @ Eye Doc

    ~+10 spd isn't terrible for an unadjusted movement, but it's not what was paid for. I'd first try demagnetizing it. If it's still not running close to what the Ginault test sheet said it was before they shipped it to you, you have a decision to make. You are will within your rights to go back to Ginault to have them re-adjust/regulate the watch. However, this may mean that you'll be without your watch for a while (there are reports of Ginault being rather slow to turn around repairs/warranty work, so it could be months) or you can decide to just live with decent but not chronometer-grade accuracy and enjoy your watch. There are plenty of watches out there at that price point that don't come with chronometer-grade movements and for which the accuracy you're seeing would be considered normal/typical
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  5. #2934
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Thanks Guys! I appreciate all the input.
    I think I'll run it a little longer and see how she does!

  6. #2935
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by MX793 View Post
    Ginault advertises their watches and being tested and adjusted to chronometer levels of accuracy over 6 weeks and, as noted, provide a test sheet to show those test results.
    Well, when it comes to the issue of their movement and advertising claims, that seems to be little like taking religion or politics at Thanksgiving dinner. I'm not commenting on any of that.

    It's not uncommon for new owners of any watch to test accuracy in ways that can actually exacerbate accuracy swings, or not take into account that even a COSC watch can and often will perform differently on different wearers. Mechanical watches have their own characteristics; getting to know those things is usually part of the enjoyment many of is get out of owning them. These are things I have learned over the years on these and other forums. This has nothing to do with Ginault. Just trying to help out the poster so he can enjoy his watch.

    Quote Originally Posted by MX793 View Post
    Not necessarily. Depends on how powerful of a magnetic field it's been exposed to and/or duration of exposure. Repeated/prolonged exposures to relatively weak magnetic fields can add up to the same effect as a single brief exposure to a strong field. I forget which channel (LI Watch maybe?), but I've seen a video demonstrating magnetism and watches and the presenter exposed a watch to a strong magnet for a few seconds and then put it back on the timegrapher and it had sped up only by ~20 spd (and subsequent de-mag resulted in it returning very close to where it was at when they started). Reduced exposure could potentially result in a watch that was running ~+1 spd to speed up to ~+12 spd. Not outside of the realm of possibility.
    Anything is possible, of course. At the same time, there are many other factors that also can and do cause a watch to speed up or slow down a few seconds per day. As for timing, It is very possible that this watch simply has not perform on this individual as it was timed, under perfect conditions, in the few weeks he has owned it. It is possible the norm for this owner may be +10. Maybe on average and over several months it will run closer to what it was times at.

    I don't think it hurts a watch to get it demagnetized, so maybe this will end up making a difference.

  7. #2936
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by nepatriot View Post
    Perfect, sounds like you did the right things. If it were me, I'd take the +12, and run it a few months to see if it settles down. +10, or even a little less over time, is very good for a mechanical ... unless you paid for COSC.

    You may feel differently, and should do what ever makes you most satisfied with the watch. At the end of the day that's all that matters.
    I'd add to this that any watch will require a "settling in" period upon receipt, especially if it was shipped direct to the purchaser (as opposed to having been purchased in a bricks and mortar store), so nepatriot's advice to run it for a few months is spot on. EyeDoc, you'll find that over time the watch will settle into a consistent rate of gain or loss. The two most important factors here are that the watch is kept fully wound, or close to it, and that you wear it daily - what you're after is variance throughout the day and variance is affected positionally (lying flat dial up, lying flat dial down, on its side crown up, on its side crown down, etc.), so wearing it throughout the day *should* expose the movement to a range of positions and thus give you a far better idea of daily overall variance in time keeping. My Seiko MM300 runs right ~+1 second a day when worn on wrist and gains about 2.5 seconds a day when stored in my watchbox face up.
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  8. #2937
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    PS I am positive that +10 seconds a day is not a sign of magnetization. Even "mild" magnetization would result in the movement gaining seconds an hour. Magnetization generally results in a watch gaining MINUTES an hour... As nepatriot notes, de-magging the watch is not going to harm anything, but I really think that you're barking up the wrong tree and that doing so will be a waste of time (pun intended!).
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  9. #2938
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by Darwin View Post
    PS I am positive that +10 seconds a day is not a sign of magnetization. Even "mild" magnetization would result in the movement gaining seconds an hour. Magnetization generally results in a watch gaining MINUTES an hour... As nepatriot notes, de-magging the watch is not going to harm anything, but I really think that you're barking up the wrong tree and that doing so will be a waste of time (pun intended!).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN7uZ01DuQQ

    This watch only speeds up by ~20 spd after being briefly exposed to a powerful magnet. Again, it's all a function of field strength and exposure time, and magnetization can be a cumulative process (magnetic fields build up over time and repeated exposure).
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  10. #2939
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by Darwin View Post
    I'd add to this that any watch will require a "settling in" period upon receipt, especially if it was shipped direct to the purchaser (as opposed to having been purchased in a bricks and mortar store), so nepatriot's advice to run it for a few months is spot on. EyeDoc, you'll find that over time the watch will settle into a consistent rate of gain or loss. The two most important factors here are that the watch is kept fully wound, or close to it, and that you wear it daily - what you're after is variance throughout the day and variance is affected positionally (lying flat dial up, lying flat dial down, on its side crown up, on its side crown down, etc.), so wearing it throughout the day *should* expose the movement to a range of positions and thus give you a far better idea of daily overall variance in time keeping. My Seiko MM300 runs right ~+1 second a day when worn on wrist and gains about 2.5 seconds a day when stored in my watchbox face up.
    Yes. Automatic watches are funny things. I used to get really frustrated with the accuracy (or lack thereof) the autos I owned. I don’t get worked up at all anymore. If I wanted an extremely accurate watch I would buy a quartz. I just adjust my OR once a week and go on with life.


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  11. #2940
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by MX793 View Post
    While not COSC (since Ginault isn't Swiss, they can't get COSC certifications), part of what you pay for with Ginault is that additional testing and adjustment (proven by 6-day accuracy test reports shipped with each watch) to receive a watch running within chronometer level accuracy. If you don't care about that, Ginault offers a model that doesn't have that extra testing and adjustment for ~60% the price.
    Of course its not COSC. If you paid for a COSC watch, that feature alone can cost almost as much as a Ginault watch.

    Any watch can be regulated to as close as 0 as possible, so the value of COSC is often debated. Or dismissed as Swiss thing. Or marketing. Point is, if the poster had paid the premium for a COSC watch, which is regulated to within -4/+6, and it consistently performed at +12 over time, he would clearly not be receiving the value of what he paid for. He also would have paid a premium for the movement itself: generally there are premium versions of movements that can be COSC certified. I.e., I'd send it back.

    At Ginault prices, I would expect, first, that it performs to within specs for the movement. I would guess those specs would be the claim for the non-regulated version you mentioned. You seem to know a lot about these... can you share the movement specs?

    Second, I would take the timing sheet, and then allow for conditions and individual variables. I.e. the timing was done in stable conditions, but real life is not. If it were me, I would not expect that this watch in real life to always perform exactly to a timing sheet.

    We don't know, unless I missed it, what the timing sheet for this watch stated. If that was +6, for example, then allowing for real world, then +10 may be reasonable. It may also settle down, as some movements do. I'd rather be a little fast out of the gate than slow, for that reason.

    We can speculate all day long. Bottom line the poster should do what makes him feel good about the watch. We're all different in that regard, so there is no right or wrong answer.

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