CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN - Page 295
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Thread: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

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  1. #2941
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by Darwin View Post
    I'd add to this that any watch will require a "settling in" period upon receipt, especially if it was shipped direct to the purchaser (as opposed to having been purchased in a bricks and mortar store), so nepatriot's advice to run it for a few months is spot on. EyeDoc, you'll find that over time the watch will settle into a consistent rate of gain or loss. The two most important factors here are that the watch is kept fully wound, or close to it, and that you wear it daily - what you're after is variance throughout the day and variance is affected positionally (lying flat dial up, lying flat dial down, on its side crown up, on its side crown down, etc.), so wearing it throughout the day *should* expose the movement to a range of positions and thus give you a far better idea of daily overall variance in time keeping. My Seiko MM300 runs right ~+1 second a day when worn on wrist and gains about 2.5 seconds a day when stored in my watchbox face up.

    For a watch shipped with a movement that is not adjusted from the factory, yes, I'd agree. One should allow at least a month (I personally use 8 weeks) of constant run time to see if the watch settles in. While perhaps not true for every unadjusted watch, 2 of my 3 mechanical watches saw their accuracy change and settle after the first 7-8 weeks of run time. However, the Ginault is not shipped unadjusted from the factory. Ginault adjusts these movements and runs them for 6 weeks (I mispoke in previous posts when I said 6 days) and provides a test report with every watch indicating that it was running within chronometer specs prior to shipment. This "test and tune" activity happens after the movement has been cased, so there should be no inaccuracies as a result of the casing of the movement. There should be no run-in or break-in period with these watches. That would have already happened during the testing and adjustment period at the factory before they ship. They should be running very close to the values listed on the test report sheet out of the box.

    From Ginault's webpage:

    https://ginault.com/caliber-7275/

    Once a completed Caliber 7275 is encased in the watch, it will then go through a 6 weeks journey on our automatic winder to simulate real world use. Our watchmakers time each one of them every 7 days, then give each one of them a slight tweak if necessary to make the caliber to run even more accurately until it reaches as close as to 0 in the end of the journey. The mark “X” means the “average daily rate”. The Swiss COSC standard of this particular measurement is +6 / -4.We keep each measurement log in an excel file. When a Ginault timepiece is sold, we will provide you a copy of the measurement log with the caliber’s serial number, the actual power reserve tested, and the last measurement date printed on the copy.
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  2. #2942
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by nepatriot View Post
    Of course its not COSC. If you paid for a COSC watch, that feature alone can cost almost as much as a Ginault watch.

    Any watch can be regulated to as close as 0 as possible, so the value of COSC is often debated. Or dismissed as Swiss thing. Or marketing. Point is, if the poster had paid the premium for a COSC watch, which is regulated to within -4/+6, and it consistently performed at +12 over time, he would clearly not be receiving the value of what he paid for. He also would have paid a premium for the movement itself: generally there are premium versions of movements that can be COSC certified. I.e., I'd send it back.

    At Ginault prices, I would expect, first, that it performs to within specs for the movement. I would guess those specs would be the claim for the non-regulated version you mentioned. You seem to know a lot about these... can you share the movement specs?

    Second, I would take the timing sheet, and then allow for conditions and individual variables. I.e. the timing was done in stable conditions, but real life is not. If it were me, I would not expect that this watch in real life to always perform exactly to a timing sheet.

    We don't know, unless I missed it, what the timing sheet for this watch stated. If that was +6, for example, then allowing for real world, then +10 may be reasonable. It may also settle down, as some movements do. I'd rather be a little fast out of the gate than slow, for that reason.

    We can speculate all day long. Bottom line the poster should do what makes him feel good about the watch. We're all different in that regard, so there is no right or wrong answer.

    There are a number of COSC-certified watches priced similar to what Ginault sells their chronometer grade model for. Christopher Ward offers a couple of COSC models for ~ $1000 (using off-the-shelf movements as opposed to their more expensive in-house movement, but even those are still under $2K). Tissot sells a few COSC certified watches for a little under a grand.

    See my previous post regarding the adjustment these watches go through.
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  3. #2943
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by rosborn View Post
    Yes. Automatic watches are funny things. I used to get really frustrated with the accuracy (or lack thereof) the autos I owned. I don’t get worked up at all anymore. If I wanted an extremely accurate watch I would buy a quartz. I just adjust my OR once a week and go on with life.


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    Spot on, and spoken like a guy who's been to this rodeo a few times!

    If I need that kind of accuracy, I look at my cell phone.

    I've got a couple of ETA's that, just for grins, I like to try to keep to a certain number over a week or so by keeping it wound up (i.e. me active vs. meetings dinner and airplane seats), and resting position at night.
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  5. #2944
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Opps double post

  6. #2945
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by Eye Doc View Post
    I would like some input from the forum members. My Ocean Rover is three weeks old and has been running 10 to 12 seconds fast per day. The final 6 week regulation provided from Ginault showed 1 second fast per day. Just for the heck of it, I demagnetized the watch this morning. Assuming the Rover is still running 10-12 seconds fast per day, would this be justification for sending the watch back to be re-regulated. What is an acceptable +/- in seconds for the Rover. It is presented as undergoing such a lengthy regulation process, but in this case, it just doesn't match up. I would like to hear everyone's thoughts on this subject. Thanks in advance to those who reply.
    This is the last couple of weeks of measurements for my OR purchased in July 2017. It tends to run a few sec/day fast at rest, dial up and slows a little when worn. It's running virtually the same today as when I received it.

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  7. #2946
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by Eye Doc View Post
    Thanks Guys! I appreciate all the input.
    I think I'll run it a little longer and see how she does!
    If you do send it in its 6-8 weeks to get it back. Mine was running 15-30 spd in spite of my sheet stating it was at 0.0. My crown was real hard to pull out too and since I had to keep resetting it I send it in. Of course John says it's keeping much better time on the machine. Oh well as long as the crown is fixed it is what it is.

  8. #2947
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by MX793 View Post
    For a watch shipped with a movement that is not adjusted from the factory, yes, I'd agree. One should allow at least a month (I personally use 8 weeks) of constant run time to see if the watch settles in. While perhaps not true for every unadjusted watch, 2 of my 3 mechanical watches saw their accuracy change and settle after the first 7-8 weeks of run time. However, the Ginault is not shipped unadjusted from the factory. Ginault adjusts these movements and runs them for 6 weeks (I mispoke in previous posts when I said 6 days) and provides a test report with every watch indicating that it was running within chronometer specs prior to shipment. This "test and tune" activity happens after the movement has been cased, so there should be no inaccuracies as a result of the casing of the movement. There should be no run-in or break-in period with these watches. That would have already happened during the testing and adjustment period at the factory before they ship. They should be running very close to the values listed on the test report sheet out of the box.

    From Ginault's webpage:

    https://ginault.com/caliber-7275/

    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    Right here is the difference between the testing and reality for the poster. The watch is regulated in six positions while spending the rest of the time on a winder. In posterís reality, the watch is spending likely eight hours immobile.


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  9. #2948
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by MX793 View Post
    There are a number of COSC-certified watches priced similar to what Ginault sells their chronometer grade model for. Christopher Ward offers a couple of COSC models for ~ $1000 (using off-the-shelf movements as opposed to their more expensive in-house movement, but still under $2K). Tissot sells a few COSC certified watches for a little under a grand.

    See my previous post regarding the adjustment these watches go through.
    I'm not sure if you are getting defensive, or simply want to debate. I'm not knocking your watch in any way, and I'm not interested in splitting hairs.

    I'll end with two points.

    First, I did see your description of how these watches are regulated, but that is already known. But by stating that, I figure you don't know what COSC testing entails, but also figured pointing that out that could lead down a rabbit hole that would be of no value to the poster. Suffice to say that COSC takes some real life variables into consideration (or more accurately takes out), but at the end of the day its still a controlled environment, so as the saying goes, "your results may vary". Ginault may do the same thing; if so they don't seem to mentioned it.

    Net-net, irrelevant: real world performance for both will be equally effected by real life variables.

    Second, several watches I considered purchasing not too long ago had a COSC options; those options cost well over $600. That does not factor in the base movement value, but that's another rabbit hole, and completely irrelevant here. FWIW, I personally would not pay a premium for COSC. That's just me.

    Again, all that is pointless because this is and never has been a COSC vs something else discussion.
    Last edited by nepatriot; March 25th, 2018 at 19:20.
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  10. #2949
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtragic View Post
    Right here is the difference between the testing and reality for the poster. The watch is regulated in six positions while spending the rest of the time on a winder. In poster’s reality, the watch is spending likely eight hours immobile.


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    Very true. And depending on how wound up the watch is when put down, the watch's performance can vary. This will compound over successive days. I've got a few auto's that can vary by 6 - 7 seconds per day between weeks of steady and high activity and weeks where I spend most of my days sitting on my behind.

    It took me a while to learn that; once I did, I found I enjoyed my watches more.
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  11. #2950
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by nepatriot View Post
    I'm not sure if you are getting defensive, simply want to debate. I'm not knocking your watch in any way, and I'm not interested in splitting hairs.

    I'll end with two points.

    First, I did see your description of how these watches are regulated, but that is already known. But by stating that, I figure you don't know what COSC testing entails, but also figured pointing that out that could lead down a rabbit hole that would be of no value to the poster. Suffice to say that COSC takes some real life variables into consideration (or more accurately takes out), but at the end of the day its still a controlled environment, so as the saying goes, "your results may vary". Ginault may do the same thing; if so they don't seem to mentioned it.

    Net-net, irrelevant: real world performance for both will be equally effected by real life variable.

    Second, several watches I considered purchasing not too long ago had a COSC options; those options cost well over $600. That does not factor in the base movement value, but that's another rabbit hole, and completely irrelevant here. FWIW, I personally would not pay a premium for COSC. That's just me.

    Again, all that is pointless because this and never has been a COSC vs something else discussion.
    Agree with all of your points. I have owned one COSC watch - a Sinn UX. It was a fantastic watch and extremely accurate...but so was the Luminox (both quartz movements) at 1/4 to 1/3 the price. I have read complaints about the accuracy of actual COSC movements and our Ginault movement ainít COSC. That is why I take ALL manufacturer statements regarding accuracy with a large grain of salt...I donít lose sleep over it...I donít worry one iota about it. I DO adjust my watch when it needs adjusting...usually it is somewhere within two minutes of the actual time. Ainít nuthiní in my life that is that time sensitive.


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