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  1. #2951
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Keep in mind there's official "COSC Certification" which by definition is going to cost more, and there's the COSC level of performance, which is often referred to, and which many watches achieve.... but without having the movements submitted, tested and certified.

    Forgetting the Certification (piece of paper) there's no reason a watch in this price range cannot obtain reasonable performance in today's market.

    While you do pretty much need Quartz (with some variants) to guarantee near-perfect performance, it's not at all uncommon to find watches well under 2K that will stay within a few seconds of zero, day in and day out.

    But, since performance of mechanical watches is really an average of all positions, a lot of real world results will be skewed by how often they are worn, and how they are positioned when they are not.

    Two owners of the exact same watch, with the exact same timing in each position can see different results simply based on how they wear their watch, for how long it rests each night and in what position.

    If Adam is a desk worker and takes his watch off immediately upon returning home from work and stores it Dial Up while Zack is a UPS driver and only removes his when going to bed and stores it Crown Up they will almost certainly report back to us with very different results, and impressions of the movement's accuracy as well.

    Myself, I store my watches on a winder, which not only keeps them fully wound (where mechanical watches deliver better accuracy) but this also randomly changes the resting position, thus helping to average out the positional differences.

    This is why the timing apps that track daily rates aren't particularly useful for comparisons. They're handy and interesting to give you an idea of the results that you are receiving, but they are entirely meaningless in comparison to others.

    Only testing in all 6 positions, using a decent timegrapher in a manner consistent with others is going to be in any way useful for collecting data and making comparisons. For example, testing at full wind -1 hour and again at -24 hours is a commonly used method for assessing overall performance. Purple Hayz has amassed a strong collection of data on this for us all.

    As for myself, I have a number of watches ranging from $300 to $1,500 that are under 4 seconds a day. But, in addition to owning Rolex, Tudor and Omega, I also tend to buy used, gray market or out of favor watches that offer a lot of bang for the buck so you really can't put price range on performance of the movement.

    In the end, there are plenty of people walking around with $5K plus mechanical watches that are more jewelry than they are great watches. Conversely, there are just as many (well, more probably) with $500 mechanical watches that aren't much in terms of jewelry, but that are really good at keeping time.
    Last edited by StephenCanale; March 26th, 2018 at 18:19.
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  2. #2952
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by nepatriot View Post
    I'm not sure if you are getting defensive, simply want to debate. I'm not knocking your watch in any way, and I'm not interested in splitting hairs.

    I'll end with two points.

    First, I did see your description of how these watches are regulated, but that is already known. But by stating that, I figure you don't know what COSC testing entails, but also figured pointing that out that could lead down a rabbit hole that would be of no value to the poster. Suffice to say that COSC takes some real life variables into consideration (or more accurately takes out), but at the end of the day its still a controlled environment, so as the saying goes, "your results may vary". Ginault may do the same thing; if so they don't seem to mentioned it.

    Net-net, irrelevant: real world performance for both will be equally effected by real life variable.
    Certainly I would expect the watch to perform a little differently on the wrist than in the lab. Hence why I said it should run "close" to what the delivered test sheet says. Also, if the watch if fully wound and left in a given position (say, face up) overnight for 8 or so hours, I would expect the time gained or lost to be very close to the rate that the test sheet reported for that position. So if the Ginault test sheet says +3 spd face up, I'd expect the watch to have gained somewhere between 0 and 2 seconds when left face up overnight after a full wind. Given that these have 40+ power reserves, you're still well above 50% wound after 8 hours and should not be seeing significant levels of power reserve-related isochronism.

    Second, several watches I considered purchasing not too long ago had a COSC options; those options cost well over $600. That does not factor in the base movement value, but that's another rabbit hole, and completely irrelevant here. FWIW, I personally would not pay a premium for COSC. That's just me.

    Again, all that is pointless because this and never has been a COSC vs something else discussion.
    I'll assume you mean $600 more than the same watch without certification? Depends very much on the manufacturer. A Tissot PR 100 COSC has a $950 RRP. The non-COSC version has an RRP of $625. Price difference is similar for their other COSC models in the $900-$1100 range versus non-COSC versions ($325-ish more for COSC). A CW Trident C60 COSC on bracelet is $1100 and the non-COSC on bracelet is $830 ($270 difference). The original Ginault OR (chronometer tuned) is $1300. The new, non-chronometer tuned version is $700. Of note, the new "affordable" model has a few other areas where costs were reduced (doesn't come on bracelet, painted indices instead of applied), so not all of that $600 price difference is in the adjustment of the movement on the chronometer tuned version. Also, the non-chronometer tuned version just came out, so there was no option of chronometer-tuned vs not with Ginault until this month.

    The value to COSC certification is up to the individual. I'm with you in that I don't really care that much and wouldn't pay extra for it if there was a non-COSC version available. Most unadjusted movements will perform good enough out of the box for what I want and if not, can be inexpensively regulated to be better. Up to Eye Doc as to whether to go back to Ginault about the accuracy or not. I'd probably leave well enough alone if it stays steady at +10-12 spd. If I intentionally bought that watch over another based on that chronometer tuning, though, I'd expect what I paid for.
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  3. #2953
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    CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Hi guys

    I’ve completed the dual AR coating mod of my ocean rover.

    Full pics here:

    Ginault Ocean Rover, No Date, BGW9 - dual AR crystal upgrade (pic heavy)
    https://forums.watchuseek.com/f74/ginault-ocean-rover-no-date-bgw9-dual-ar-crystal-upgrade-pic-heavy-4669441.html



    Last edited by cwfmon; March 26th, 2018 at 03:10.

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  5. #2954
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    My wife said to me the other evening after telling me how happy her work colleague was with her house, "it must be wonderful to be completely happy with your house" and i said "well that's easy, just stop looking for things wrong with yours".

    I don't worry about exact timing as it's just a wrist watch, but that's me, other folks take it more seriously.
    rosborn, Eye Doc and drwindsurf like this.

  6. #2955
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by 59er View Post
    My wife said to me the other evening after telling me how happy her work colleague was with her house, "it must be wonderful to be completely happy with your house" and i said "well that's easy, just stop looking for things wrong with yours".

    I don't worry about exact timing as it's just a wrist watch, but that's me, other folks take it more seriously.
    Good point. I'm a Seiko fan, but even I must admit that if you bought a $2,000 MM300 and reported it was running +10 SPD, most would comment you got a good one.

    You could almost comment the worst thing Ginault did was include the timing adjustment sheet for the watches. It inherently makes us all want to see just how close our performance is to the reported accuracy. Of course, none of us factor in the reality that those adjustments were made over 6 weeks in a controlled environment (constant temp, minimal movement, etc.). Any mechanical watch movement will be effected by temperature changes, not to mention common daily bumps and swings as go about our day.

    It is a bit analogous to the delivery debate earlier. Better to under promise and over deliver.

  7. #2956
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    I recall stumbling upon these some time ago and thinking $1000+ was huge money for an homage watch. After forgetting, then stumbling back upon it here I do quite like it. The dial is a little cheesy with the text frankly, but I love the old 16610 case and I'm pretty sure I'm not willing to pay ~5-6K for it.

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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperOrbital View Post
    I recall stumbling upon these some time ago and thinking $1000+ was huge money for an homage watch. After forgetting, then stumbling back upon it here I do quite like it. The dial is a little cheesy with the text frankly, but I love the old 16610 case and I'm pretty sure I'm not willing to pay ~5-6K for it.
    I'm test driving one of their new models with the flat black / gilt dial. This new dial has a nice dial layout with logo and brand name above the handset and depth rating and model name under. All the extra text has been deleted.

    I'll post a review later this week, but the TL/DR summary is I like it quite a bit.

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    drwindsurf and jamsie like this.

  9. #2958
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryeguy View Post
    I'm test driving one of their new models with the flat black / gilt dial. This new dial has a nice dial layout with logo and brand name above the handset and depth rating and model name under. All the extra text has been deleted.

    I'll post a review later this week, but the TL/DR summary is I like it quite a bit.

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    Not a fan of gilt. Give me that dial without gilt, with a date (no cyclops), on a black bezel in BGW9 lume and I'm real sold.

  10. #2959
    Member GarbanzoNegro's Avatar
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperOrbital View Post
    Not a fan of gilt. Give me that dial without gilt, with a date (no cyclops), on a black bezel in BGW9 lume and I'm real sold.
    Take the date off...

  11. #2960
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperOrbital View Post
    I recall stumbling upon these some time ago and thinking $1000+ was huge money for an homage watch. After forgetting, then stumbling back upon it here I do quite like it. The dial is a little cheesy with the text frankly, but I love the old 16610 case and I'm pretty sure I'm not willing to pay ~5-6K for it.
    The original price was much more reasonable, and in line with other homages. I haven't paid much attention to sub homages... what happened to the Squale 1545, the Davosa, or Stienhart? They were around the same price as the Ginault's original price. Maybe those others have gone away?
    Tbjay1215 likes this.

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