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  1. #71
    Member jdmfetish's Avatar
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    I will write all day long at $2 a word
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  2. #72
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN


    Appreciate the detail, good luck!!

    I've built dozens of sub [homage] mods and am a semi-pro relumer. To me, the dial and movement are above-standard but it's hard to tell how much from pics.

    A true enamel dial is rare, and it looks great in pics. But the site touts the quality of the markers and depth of the lume... images of the loose dial markers on the site appear to show great polish but not the kind of depth required for Rolex or Omega-caliber lume (but it's hard to judge from a pic).

    Name:  GinaultHourMarkers.JPG
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    (For comparison, most cheap shiny dials are painted/coated and often markers aren't cupped at all. This is a nice dial, just hard to tell how nice without seeing it.)

    The movement reflects a high degree of detail. While some parts appear Asian, it's not a Sea-Gull ebauche; there's a bit customized here. The balance hardware is pretty nice (not rarefied as the verbiage makes it sound) and the tall cannon pinion will improve the depth of the watch face. This movement could be very good: timing numbers are believable.

    Both customized and off-the-shelf movements have pros and cons, but use of the former accounts for some of the price here.

    Other bits are harder to judge from pics but the case looks nice. I'd prefer drilled lugs since the end links are going for the earlier folded fit look. IMO a choice between merc and sword hands would be nice.

    This is doing a different thing than most other legit homages out there (classy of Doc IMO to bow out of comparison). The marketing verbiage is unfortunate mostly because it carries onto the dial...

    With used Black Bays dipping below $2k, the bar for a $1300 vintage Sub homage is quite high. Looking forward to a detailed review!
    Last edited by NeedAG; December 23rd, 2016 at 17:54.
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  3. #73
    Member Radar1's Avatar
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by NeedAG View Post

    Appreciate the detail, good luck!!

    I've built dozens of Sub mods and am a semi-pro relumer. To me, the dial and movement are above-standard but it's hard to tell how much from pics.

    A true enamel dial is rare, and it looks great in pics. But the site touts the quality of the markers and depth of the lume... images of the loose dial markers on the site appear to show great polish but not the kind of depth required for Rolex or Omega-caliber lume (but it's hard to judge from a pic).

    Name:  GinaultHourMarkers.JPG
Views: 875
Size:  70.4 KB

    (For comparison, most cheap shiny dials are painted/coated and often markers aren't cupped at all. This is a nice dial, just hard to tell how nice without seeing it.)

    The movement reflects a high degree of detail. While some parts appear Asian, it's not a Sea-Gull ebauche; there's a bit customized here. The balance hardware is pretty nice (not rarefied as the verbiage makes it sound) and the tall cannon pinion will improve the depth of the watch face. This movement could be very good: timing numbers are believable.

    Both customized and off-the-shelf movements have pros and cons, but use of the former accounts for some of the price here.

    Other bits are harder to judge from pics but the case looks nice. I'd prefer drilled lugs since the end links are going for the earlier folded fit look. IMO a choice between merc and sword hands would be nice.

    This is doing a different thing than most other legit homages out there (classy of Doc IMO to bow out of comparison). The marketing verbiage is unfortunate mostly because it carries onto the dial...

    With used Black Bays dipping below $2k, the bar for a $1300 vintage Sub homage is quite high. Looking forward to a detailed review!
    Great post. Nice to see some well thought out and constructive opinion on the matter, as opposed to brainless bashing.
    NeedAG and Keithcozz like this.

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  5. #74
    Member jdmfetish's Avatar
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    people who bought his Base Module 1 in 2011 liked it

    he can build a watch

    OWC is $750 ISH with Seagull and $1000 ISH with Soprod

    MKII is $1750 ISH with ETA and you will wait TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO long for it

    This at $520 is priced fine
    Last edited by jdmfetish; December 23rd, 2016 at 18:00.
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  6. #75
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by Radar1 View Post
    Fair enough on their lack of response within the thread. I still think someone could put some very pointed and focused questions to them (without attacking the ad campaign, which really has little bearing on the nuts and bolts of the watch beyond ambiguities about the movement, which are justified). A debate on the watch is obviously fair game. Constant whining and picking apart of semantics is shallow and doesn't really get at the watch in any constructive way. Not pointing fingers at you at all.

    On the matter of simply buying a Steinhart, I believe it is far too early to tell if they actually make a nicer homage or represent better value (assuming a significant discount off MSRP is in play for the Ginault). I think an Ocean One and this model would have to be compared side-by-side to draw that conclusion and no-one has the Ginault in hand to do that yet. We have several good quality macro photos that to my eye indicate that the Ginault is a more nicely finished watch. Internals TBD fully. I have owned two Steinharts and they were decent watches and solid value. I can't say that either were truly outstanding in terms of build quality, and were obviously homages, but for the money definitely both good buys. For the record, I bought two Hexa Ospreys (sold the black dial) and didn't like their bogus MSRP either. It didn't dissuade me from buying either piece when the price was more realistic. The bottom line is getting a good quality watch at a fair price, and I have no issue with seeing through and past the hyperbole. I can separate the watch from the hot air. How do you think this one may compare to say a Tourby 42 (homage aspect aside)?
    If you put your wares out for display you've got to be prepared to defend and discuss. I've seen others come on and react with politeness and good grace to a good grilling, maybe Ginault need to join in here?

    I've handled Tudors and Omegas recently and compared to the micro brands I own (Steinhart included....) I did not see a justification for the hike in price based solely on quality. IMHO you're paying for the name and the expense of a big marketing budget. So when looking at the Ginault I fail to see how they can justify the price over that of a Steinhart, Armida, Helson or say Kemmner. I've been thinking about Mkii here and they manage to justify their prices because of the attention to detail and the amazing looks, I don't see that Ginault have either the looks or the fan base to justify the price in the same way.......

    As you've said we'd need to see an impartial review (that's not been bought with a discount!).

    Tourby 42 looks good and at least it has its own design language, whilst reminding me of the Tudor BB, no idea how it would compare TBH.
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  7. #76
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    To be crystal clear, a watchmaker's (not a modder's) tear down would be needed to substantiate the claims made here. Eyeballing pics or the actual product does not do that.


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  8. #77
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by Radar1 View Post
    Selecting a graphic with the word "son" in it is inherently condescending. I think you know that. I didn't "bait" you. That has a malicious connotation that is out of line here.

    Pretty sure I had your back on as many baseless accusations against you that I saw. Not out of any loyalty to you or your brand but because I despise seeing garbage like that unfairly propogated against people on public forums.

    I do think you have to watch your step a little as a fellow micro owner/retailer on the forum, but you have opined on other brands/products. Why would this one be different? Because you see deficiencies and don't want that misconstrued as an attack on a competitor? I really don't see too many negatives on this watch from the description (grandiose semantics aside) or the macro shots, and some (IMO) are basing their perspectives purely on the marketing hype, which clearly fell a little flat, but can hardly be correlated directly with the quality of the product.
    Radar, I assure you, there was no condescension implied. The meme just is what it is. Please don't read so much into it.

    You have spoke up in my defense, which I do appreciate, and I'd never intentionally insult you in the way you're interpreting the post. You've taken offense where none was meant, and none should be taken.

    You said it would be interesting to get my take. My take is just as I said. If the product is good, worth the asking price, and backed up by the sellers, I wish them well. Beyond that, no comment.

    We secretly replaced Stacy's real talk with new freeze-dried Tapatalk crystals. Let's see if she can taste the difference...
    Radar1, whoa, gdb1960 and 3 others like this.
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  9. #78
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet99 View Post
    If you put your wares out for display you've got to be prepared to defend and discuss. I've seen others come on and react with politeness and good grace to a good grilling, maybe Ginault need to join in here?

    I've handled Tudors and Omegas recently and compared to the micro brands I own (Steinhart included....) I did not see a justification for the hike in price based solely on quality. IMHO you're paying for the name and the expense of a big marketing budget. So when looking at the Ginault I fail to see how they can justify the price over that of a Steinhart, Armida, Helson or say Kemmner. I've been thinking about Mkii here and they manage to justify their prices because of the attention to detail and the amazing looks, I don't see that Ginault have either the looks or the fan base to justify the price in the same way.......

    As you've said we'd need to see an impartial review (that's not been bought with a discount!).

    Tourby 42 looks good and at least it has its own design language, whilst reminding me of the Tudor BB, no idea how it would compare TBH.
    If we discard the MSRP and work with the discount then it is only a slight bump on the Steinhart Ocean One. I think it is entirely possible that that nominal increment is more than justified - we'll have to wait and see as some land. I read plenty of comments on their Base 1 model being outstanding quality, so there is at least some reason to be positive here. It is clear that the company feels this is a better effort than the first watch they built. Perhaps worded a little too exuberantly... lol.

    Agreed that they could step in at any time and clarify some questions. I think while the styling of the Tourby is obviously very different, it might make for a reasonable comparison in terms of components and build quality. Lovely watches for certain.

  10. #79
    Member Radar1's Avatar
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by docvail View Post
    Radar, I assure you, there was no condescension implied. The meme just is what it is. Please don't read so much into it.

    You have spoke up in my defense, which I do appreciate, and I'd never intentionally insult you in the way you're interpreting the post. You've taken offense where none was meant, and none should be taken.

    You said it would be interesting to get my take. My take is just as I said. If the product is good, worth the asking price, and backed up by the sellers, I wish them well. Beyond that, no comment.

    We secretly replaced Stacy's real talk with new freeze-dried Tapatalk crystals. Let's see if she can taste the difference...
    Fair enough, Chris. Thanks.
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  11. #80
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by Djk949 View Post
    To be crystal clear, a watchmaker's (not a modder's) tear down would be needed to substantiate the claims made here. Eyeballing pics or the actual product does not do that.


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    A little research should reveal quickly enough that they can and do build pretty nice watches. Jury is out on the movement for now, and at least some of the rest should be revealed as some are acquired and owners post their thoughts.

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