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  1. #951
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

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    Last edited by Jtragic; February 8th, 2017 at 03:28. Reason: dupe



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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by Stellite View Post
    I live in a town half the the size of yours and I have no problem getting any watch worked on locally.
    Did you actually try to service/repair a watch with clone or Chinese movements with your magical local guys or are you just going by what they told you? It's not unheard for a watchmaker to say they can fix all watches, ask you to bring in the watch and later admit that the watch is not repairable. Until you can get your magical local guys to fix, let's say, a Chinese movement watch, saying that you "have no problem getting any watch worked on" is, as you've said, "BS'ing."

    Quote Originally Posted by Stellite View Post
    I am sure there are watch makers in your town that would and could work on any watch.
    I know I mentioned it a couple of times before and start to sound like a broken record but it's less a matter of willingness but ability get parts that may be required. No matter how good a watchmaker, he can't fix your watch if he doesn't have any spare parts. I have not heard of any watchmaker willing to work on Chinese ETA clones. I don't see how Ginault clone would be treated any differently. As Docvail said, it'd be cheaper to replace if replaceable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stellite View Post
    It's likely you haven't looked hard enough, or at all for a watchmaker that can do that since you may not have a need for it if you do not own a micro brand.
    I do have a watchmaker who is not local that I'm happy with. Owning a microbrand watch has little to do with serviceability since they usually use movements from widely known and available sources, i.e., Miyota. So repair/replace of a movement of a typical microbrand shouldn't be too hard. As far as I know, Ginault is the only microbrand that claims to "manufacture" its own ETA clone.

  3. #953
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by RNHC View Post
    Did you actually try to service/repair a watch with clone or Chinese movements with your magical local guys or are you just going by what they told you? It's not unheard for a watchmaker to say they can fix all watches, ask you to bring in the watch and later admit that the watch is not repairable. Until you can get your magical local guys to fix, let's say, a Chinese movement watch, saying that you "have no problem getting any watch worked on" is, as you've said, "BS'ing."



    I know I mentioned it a couple of times before and start to sound like a broken record but it's less a matter of willingness but ability get parts that may be required. No matter how good a watchmaker, he can't fix your watch if he doesn't have any spare parts. I have not heard of any watchmaker willing to work on Chinese ETA clones. I don't see how Ginault clone would be treated any differently. As Docvail said, it'd be cheaper to replace if replaceable.



    I do have a watchmaker who is not local that I'm happy with. Owning a microbrand watch has little to do with serviceability since they usually use movements from widely known and available sources, i.e., Miyota. So repair/replace of a movement of a typical microbrand shouldn't be too hard. As far as I know, Ginault is the only microbrand that claims to "manufacture" its own ETA clone.
    I understand you do not like this watch but this particular argument you raise has little basis in reality.

    This is a good read for those interested. https://forums.watchuseek.com/f72/how-do-seagull-hangzhou-compare-eta-depth-look-216945.html

    For the TL/DR crowd, to quote Lysanderxiii: "Going over the pictures and examining the parts, I can say with very good confidence, that any replacement part for an ETA 2824-2 will fit and work in either of these two movements.

    This is great news. Now, for the first time, there is a Chinese made movement with a source of spares, as Bestfit has any ETA 2824 part you could possibly need."

    I would expect there are few, if any, completely custom parts in the Ginault 2824-2 movement. They admit it is a copy of the ETA 2824-2 with the only differences being the higher pinion (H4 versus the more common H2) and the use of the Chinese design anti-shock system. Their biggest claim is that the movement itself was manufactured in the USA - not that there was any design innovation.

    An independent watchmaker who can service a 2824-2 can service the Ginault 2824-2. Assembly and disassembly is the same. Oiling is the same. Cleaning is the same. Springs are the same. There is nothing new or unique to the movement that would cause a watchmaker any difficulty from what I can see.
    Last edited by Ryeguy; February 8th, 2017 at 16:13.
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  5. #954
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryeguy View Post
    I understand you do not like this watch but this particular argument you raise has little basis in reality.

    This is a good read for those interested. https://forums.watchuseek.com/f72/how-do-seagull-hangzhou-compare-eta-depth-look-216945.html

    For the TL/DR crowd, to quote Lysanderxiii: "Going over the pictures and examining the parts, I can say with very good confidence, that any replacement part for an ETA 2824-2 will fit and work in either of these two movements.

    This is great news. Now, for the first time, there is a Chinese made movement with a source of spares, as Bestfit has any ETA 2824 part you could possibly need."

    I would expect there are few, if any, completely custom parts in the Ginault 2824-2 movement. They admit it is a copy of the ETA 2824-2 with the only differences being the higher pinion (H4 versus the more common H2) and the use of the Chinese design anti-shock system. Their biggest claim is that the movement itself was manufactured in the USA - not that there was any design innovation.

    An independent watchmaker who can service a 2824-2 can service the Ginault 2824-2. Assembly and disassembly is the same. Oiling is the same. Cleaning is the same. Springs are the same. There is nothing new or unique to the movement that would cause a watchmaker any difficulty from what I can see.
    I stand corrected. After reading some of the Internet articles on differences between clones and ETA, it sounded like parts were NOT interchangeable. I still wonder, if parts are interchangeable, why wouldn't watchmakers touch Chinese ETA clones?

  6. #955
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by RNHC View Post
    I stand corrected. After reading some of the Internet articles on differences between clones and ETA, it sounded like parts were NOT interchangeable. I still wonder, if parts are interchangeable, why wouldn't watchmakers touch Chinese ETA clones?
    They may have signed a contract restricting what they can replace a damaged movement with and also not allowing work on "cloned" movements. If they want to keep their job they follow their contract. An independent would probably do whatever you're willing to pay for (with caveats).
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  7. #956
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    So much talk about things that aren't specifically about the watch, so I'm going to get it back on track!

    Name:  IMG_0248.JPG
Views: 277
Size:  2.22 MB

    I've had the watch about for a week now and it probably is my favorite watch out of all the watches I own currently (though I don't own anything that expensive).

    The accuracy of the watch is impeccable as through 5 days I'm at about +2 sec (based on a comparison to time.is).

    I'll have a review up about it with some comparisons to the other watches I own to talk about build quality and other things.

    PS: Seems like the discount code is dead so from here on out full MSRP?
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  8. #957
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by RNHC View Post
    Did you actually try to service/repair a watch with clone or Chinese movements with your magical local guys or are you just going by what they told you? It's not unheard for a watchmaker to say they can fix all watches, ask you to bring in the watch and later admit that the watch is not repairable. Until you can get your magical local guys to fix, let's say, a Chinese movement watch, saying that you "have no problem getting any watch worked on" is, as you've said, "BS'ing."



    I know I mentioned it a couple of times before and start to sound like a broken record but it's less a matter of willingness but ability get parts that may be required. No matter how good a watchmaker, he can't fix your watch if he doesn't have any spare parts. I have not heard of any watchmaker willing to work on Chinese ETA clones. I don't see how Ginault clone would be treated any differently. As Docvail said, it'd be cheaper to replace if replaceable.



    I do have a watchmaker who is not local that I'm happy with. Owning a microbrand watch has little to do with serviceability since they usually use movements from widely known and available sources, i.e., Miyota. So repair/replace of a movement of a typical microbrand shouldn't be too hard. As far as I know, Ginault is the only microbrand that claims to "manufacture" its own ETA clone.

    Yes, I have had them work on some very rare movements and some very old ones. I am not talking just one place either. Several places in town. I am sure I could fine one in your town, so yeah, I think it's BS. put the name of your city out, lets see.
    Hate-on troll. You didn't earn my money. Mind your own business you incredibly smug, supercilious, inverted snob.

  9. #958
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by Astropin View Post
    They may have signed a contract restricting what they can replace a damaged movement with and also not allowing work on "cloned" movements. If they want to keep their job they follow their contract. An independent would probably do whatever you're willing to pay for (with caveats).
    From my experience, I think time vs cost is alot of the issue. Why work on any clone when it can just be replaced? As a watchmaker you have to strip down just as much on a clone ETA as a Swiss ETA. It's hardly worth it to strip and repair a Swiss ETA when you can get a new one for less than $200. I had the ETA rebuilt on my vintage Tudor and it cost me over $500. I did that because of a value play on an original watch that's almost 50 years old.

    How much do you think it'll cost to rebuild a $90 clone movement? Probably more than the watch it came in. All that does for the watchmaker is build ill will because the customer would fell like they're getting ripped off.

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    Last edited by Jtragic; February 9th, 2017 at 02:01.
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  10. #959
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtragic View Post
    From my experience, I think time vs cost is alot of the issue. Why work on any clone when it can just be replaced? As a watchmaker you have to strip down just as much on a clone ETA as a Swiss ETA. It's hardly worth it to strip and repair a Swiss ETA when you can get a new one for less than $200. I had the ETA rebuilt on my vintage Tudor and it cost me over $500. I did that because of a value play on an original watch that's almost 50 years old.

    How much do you think it'll cost to rebuild a $90 clone movement? Probably more than the watch it came in. All that does for the watchmaker is build ill will because the customer would fell like they're getting ripped off.

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    Boom. Nailed it! There you go. If it's replaceable by any old $90 clone, it's not worth the $1300 ask, even if it's worth the $580 discount or whatever they're discounting for these days.
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    Re: CLASSIC SUBMARINER LOVERS - GINAULT OCEAN-ROVER 181070GSLN

    Quote Originally Posted by Stellite View Post
    Yes, I have had them work on some very rare movements and some very old ones. I am not talking just one place either. Several places in town. I am sure I could fine one in your town, so yeah, I think it's BS. put the name of your city out, lets see.
    You are lucky. I live near docvail in Philadelphia suburbs. If you read the post/article linked by Avo, you would learn that docvail (who is in the watch business) found only one watchmaker he trusts. I may be putting words in his mouth but it seemed like he had some difficulty finding a right watchmaker despite being in the business. Like I've said I do have a watchmaker I'm happy with but I'd be glad to take a name from you. Do your thing, hoss.

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