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how tough is your watch?

6K views 66 replies 35 participants last post by  cal..45 
#1 ·
It seems like the trend in Dive watches is big cases and absurd depth ratings at the moment. While I certainly like the style of some of the larger watches on the market, and it is cool to have a watch that can go deep, I wonder if it actually makes the watch more fragile to have such a large and heavy case?
Since force equals mass x velocity, the more mass a watch has means it will have more force than a lighter watch when dropped from the same height, or banged against a rock/doorway/tree...
Don't get me wrong, I really like the styling of a lot of the 1000m brutes that are availble, and if money were no object, I would own several. But since money does matter, I really hesitate to shell out $1000+ for a watch that might not survive a fall from waist height onto concrete.
I'm not trying to start a flame war here, but I would like to hear some stories from owners on the ability of their "bulletproof" watch to withstand actual abuse, and not just intense water pressure.:thanks
 
#5 · (Edited)
Well, the simple fact (not opinion) is that a watch rated for 2000M is "tougher" than one rated for 200M because it does have a thicker, heavier case and crystal and can withstand greater pressures. Shouldn't this be obvious to everyone? I'm not saying that the surface of the case won't get battered like any other, but a 2000M watch should be better able to "take a licking and keep on ticking" than a 200M one.

For the record, I don't currently own any watches with extra deep depth ratings so I have no dog in this fight, but I think these watches deserve their due. It's a big task and a costly venture to get a dive watch rated for a depth greater than 1000M.
 
#3 ·
It would seem to me that the larger, thicker cases and crystals themselves would provide the "possible" additional protection needed for these watches due to their greater weight. However, considering the heights and velocities encountered by a watch on a man's wrist and the differences in weight being in grams and not pounds, I seriously doubt this issue is worth losing even a minute's sleep over.

As far as I'm concerned, this is a non-issue.
 
#4 ·
I always thought the whole "tough" thing is entirely subjective/anecdotal and a matter of luck and circumstance unless a watch is equipped with some type of hardened materials and or shock/magnetic resistance.
 
#8 ·
I wonder if it actually makes the watch more fragile to have such a large and heavy case?
Since force equals mass x velocity, the more mass a watch has means it will have more force than a lighter watch when dropped from the same height
Are you supposing a heavier watch 'falls harder'? :oops:

I think there's a reason why people who are hard on watches (e.g. military men) choose dive watches even if the watch will only see rain/puddles. In addition, there is more to watch toughness than the case.
 
#10 ·
Xtrooper is right, The difference in the weight of watches is usually only a few grams, so it might not actually matter. However, taken to an extreme, the 12,000 meter CX swiss diver for example, will have more force when it lands if dropped from a certain height than a lighter watch. Force = mass x velocity right?

I understand the appeal of dive watches, and I know how strong they can be. My job requires a tough watch, so I wear a dive watch or a G-shock. What I am getting at, is that is a 2000 meter dive watch necessarily more tough than a 200 meter one, and is it possibly less?

As an aside, I am glad this post is generating debate. Isn't it nice to have a discussion about watches beyond just "this looks good, that looks bad"?
 
#11 ·
Referring to the movements being damaged, I read that Seiko uses plastic spacers with the weights in their autos (correct me if im wrong) to reduce against shock vibration.

On another note, who rides a motorcycle with an auto, and who notices any difference? My land shark rattles like crazy when Im going down the freeway, should this be an issue? It keeps great time...
 
#13 ·
In all seriousness, if it were about nothing but toughness and the ability to handle an impact... my G-Shock would win out all day long.

I wear my divers more often because they have better legibility and are more versatile in terms of their appearance. Plus, I sort of like the weight of my SS divers.
 
#21 ·
In all seriousness, if it were about nothing but toughness and the ability to handle an impact... my G-Shock would win out all day long.

I wear my divers more often because they have better legibility and are more versatile in terms of their appearance. Plus, I sort of like the weight of my SS divers.
That just depends on the situation you put it in. I can pretty much guarantee you that if you take your G-Shock, or just about any other watch, down on a saturation dive to 2000 feet along with this watch and smack them into the side of the diving bell that only one will be working and it ain't the G-Shock. Just pointing out that there are different 'tough' situations.

 
#14 ·
It seems to me that the mass of the case has no effect on the impact actually felt by the movement inside, unless we're looking at a difference in actual impact velocity because of the weight. On the contrary, a heavier case might actually cushion the movement a bit by taking a bit longer to slow down when it hits something.

Light watch/heavy watch, both dropped onto dirt from the Leaning Tower of Pisa. Light watch hits and leaves, say a one millimeter ding in the ground. So the movement has decelerated in one millimeter from whatever its velocity was at impact. Heavy watch with the same drop leaves a four millimeter dent in the ground, so it has decelerated from the same velocity to zero in four mm. Lower peak G force felt by the interior of the heavy watch as it has decelerated over a longer distance. Unless they both hit a completely unyielding surface, the movement is better protected by the heavier case as the peak deceleration would be less.

I think we want to avoid confusing the momentum of the complete package with acceleration/deceleration felt by the movement inside.

Henry
 
#16 ·
I have three watches in my collection that fit here:

Doxa 750T Sharkhunter (big, expensive and rated very deep)
Seiko SKX007J (affordable and rated 200M)
G-Shock DW-6900 (cheap rated 200M)

My "go to" watch for the tough stuff is the G-Shock. Sometimes I'll use the Seiko, but the Doxa is either for diving or casual wear. This is based on cost and replaceability, so obviously the Doxa doesn't get put through the paces the Seiko does.

Having said all that, the Seiko's a tank. I'd put that watch up against ANY other auto on the market today for out and out toughness.

Just my .02.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Dive watches are tougher than, say dress watches (for an extreme example, but the same arguement applies to super deep extreme diver and ordinary divers), not because they can withstand shock loading, because unless you are prone to dropping your watch, they will rarely see high G's, and to that extent they are equal, but because they have (usually) have thicker, or tougher crystals. After all once you get to a certain case wall thickness the additional metal does not provide additional strength.

What most watches need to be is resistant to is deformation and fracture of the crystal caused by high impacts, such as the highly scientific knife handle on the glass test, or an unintentional hit on the door-frame. How many have dropped or hit a watch case so hard it had to replaced? Now, how many have hit a crystal hard enough that had to be replaced?*

Sorry to interject another physics lesson (but no math this time).

Two watches, dropped from the same height will hit the ground at the same speed. It doesn't matter if one is a 2 pound 15,000 m rated extreme diver and the other is an ordinary watch. Everything accelerates toward earth at the same acceleration 32.2 ft/s3. And, while it is true that a more massive object will require more force to stop it and plasticly deform the impacting surface more, the difference in masses of extreme divers and ordinary watches is not going to be enough to make any real measurable difference. It about the same as saying the aerodynamic drag on a larger watch is greater than that of a small watch, so the larger watch will actually not fall as fast as a little watch.

And since they hit the ground with the same speed they will encounter the same G loading on impact. Whether or not they survive will be dependant on how the movement will resist shock.

(All, it is - Force = the time rate change of (mass x velocity), or F = M x acceleration.)


* Not counting those of you would have a tiny nick at the edge of the crystal below the seven o'clock position that nobody could see but you, so you replaced the crystal.
 
#18 ·
how tough is (are) your watch(es)?
well, I would say pretty tough but I let it up to you to judge.....;-)



regards, holger

p.s. 200m/20bar is WAY more than sufficient for me
 
#19 ·
People are going to keep buying bigger, heavier, and deeper rated watches which has been pretty clearly shown in the market in the past 10 years. Are they tougher eh who knows, are they worth the extra money most likely to the guys that buy them. Is there always going to be a market share for the G shock, 200m straight auto diver oh sure as hell. But kind of like the farmer who kept kissing his cow when ask why his reply was it was simply a matter of taste. But ain't it great we all got a choice of what to buy!:-d
 
#20 ·
I own a few watches that are tough:

Casio MRG-110


Casio MRG-210


Breitling Aeromarine Colt Quartz II (Breitling claims this is the toughest watch they make)


I own a lot other watches like the Autozilla, Omega SMP, Submariner, UTS-München, Sinn U1 etc. but due to the fact that these watches use mechanical movements I do not think they are tough enough when it comes to heavy abuse and great forces.
 
#33 ·
Just living with Tim for 20 months sounds like hell to me :-d

For anyone who hasn't read Tim's posts on what he's put his Sinn through, they are highly recommended. As are the watches of course. :-!
 
#23 · (Edited)
To me it would seem that the thicker the sapphire the more resistant to shatter. If you want ultimate shock protection then it has to be quartz!
The most shock protected automatic movements use the IWC Ingenieur or Sinn system, where the movement floats in the case and the crown disengages from the movement when screwed in. The movement then absolutely floats and absorbs shocks from rubber buffers on all sides of the case. But nothing is fully shock proof when you have an automatic movement.
During the nineteen forties Robert Ditisheim invented the exactomatic in order to compensate for the positional error of shock.
The exactomatic is a special shaped Jewel of the balance to eliminate error in different positions and cause constant friction no matter what position or shock. This Invention was patented and used in Vulcain's watches, copied by others but defended in court in the USA and Europe in the 1950's and that is why we don't see it these days. But some consider this invention to be as important as the tourbillion to keep time and eliminate error when in different positons or shocked.

Most watch professionals think that the kif shock absorber is superior to ETA's Incablock and the hairsprings used by Rolex are the toughest of any automatic movements around. I am just quoting what my old watchmaker used to say, I used to bug him with these questions.
He is now retired and has just visited me here in Dublin from Switzerland, where he oiled and serviced my oldtimers.
__________________
 
#34 ·
To me it would seem that the thicker the sapphire the more resistant to shatter. If you want ultimate shock protection then it has to be quartz!
The most shock protected automatic movements use the IWC Ingenieur or Sinn system, where the movement floats in the case and the crown disengages from the case when screwed in. The movement then absolutely floats and absorbs shocks from rubber buffers on all sides of the case. But nothing is fully shock proof when you have an automatic movement.
During the nineteen forties Robert Ditisheim invented the exactomatic in order to compensate for the positional error of shock.
The exactomatic is a special shaped Jewel of the balance to eliminate error different positions and cause constant friction no matter what position or shock. This Invention was patented and used in Vulcain's watches, copied by others but defended in court in the USA and Europe in the 1950's and that is why we don't see it these days. But some consider this invention to be as important as the tourbillion to keep time and eliminate error when in different positons or shocked.

Most watch professionals think that the kif shock absorber is superior to ETA's Incablock and the hairsprings used by Rolex are the toughest of any automatic movements around. I am just quoting what my old watchmaker used to say, I used to bug him with these questions.
He is now retired and has just visited me here in Dublin from Switzerland, where he oiled and serviced my oldtimers.
__________________
Great post and with all due respect to the WUS owners and mods, there is far too little of this type of post around. I appreciate the info, but one question: wasn't the boldened part meant to say "disengage from the movement"?
 
#26 · (Edited)
Wow, cool timepiece! Do they still make them? Whats the exact name of that particular model?

In general on that topic: I don't think that the weight matters much regarding toughness, I think it's rather the hardness of the case that matters - if the case is very hard (like the "Duratect" Autozilla for example) the movement is more likely to be damaged, when you drop the watch, because a harder case doesn't absorb much of the impact. If the case is "softer" it absorbs more energy, and the movement is protected better - much like in a car that has an extra "crunch zone" (don't know the exact word for it). So it all depends. I think it's better when the movement of my Autozilla takes the damage, because it's a "cheap" movement, and the case is probably much more expensive to replace than the movement. When I'm doing hard work with considerable risks of ruining a watch I always take my G-Shock (no moving parts, so probably way tougher than any mechanical watch).

Greetings, Sedi:)
 
#29 ·
The other night being an ex-marine(sorry still a marine), I hopped on my Harley with a bunch of vets and we went bar hopping. Not drinking a lot but shooting the breeze and telling lies. Some folks took issue with out=r rowdiness, and a small altercation followed, and since i was wearing my Seiko Atlas Map(which weighs an astounding 218grams) it was tough enough to knock the fellow pestering me, on his butt. At this point, clearer heads prevailed, so we left and went on home. The moral of the story is "one's watch can never be too tough not too heavy"!

LOL

semper fi

paul:-d:-d:-d:-d:-d:-d:-d
 
#30 ·
The other night being an ex-marine(sorry still a marine), I hopped on my Harley with a bunch of vets and we went bar hopping. Not drinking a lot but shooting the breeze and telling lies. Some folks took issue with out=r rowdiness, and a small altercation followed, and since i was wearing my Seiko Atlas Map(which weighs an astounding 218grams) it was tough enough to knock the fellow pestering me, on his butt. At this point, clearer heads prevailed, so we left and went on home. The moral of the story is "one's watch can never be too tough not too heavy"!

LOL

semper fi

paul:-d:-d:-d:-d:-d:-d:-d
I'm glad you corrected yourself, Paul. As we Marines all know, "Once a Marine, always a Marine!" |>

I was also taught that the word Marine, when used in reference to a US Marine, is always to be captialized, proper grammar be damned! :-d
 
#31 · (Edited)
as Steve mentioned it would seem logical that a thicker case and thicker crystal would provide a more robust environment in which to protect the movement. I can't speak for anyone else but I just wear my deep divers and enjoy them, I don't club people on the head with them, throw them out of windows or run them over with my car and I never worry too much about them either. :-d If you really worry about the extra weight then why not go for a titanium case, much lighter and tougher or better still the Autozilla is toughened ti with duratec and probably could be used for all the above mentioned activities if need be. :-!

Cheers
 
#32 ·
I wear my seiko monster when I snowboard. I probably should invest in a Gshock or something similar, but I think it's a pretty tough watch for something thats not really advertised for absorbing a lot of force/vibrations/etc. There's some faint scratches on it thats about it. Still keeps good time. :-!
 
#39 ·
This is an interesting topic....very amusing read.

One thing though. Who here has or does ACTUALLY drop their watch? I havent done so in years (watch it happen later today though).
I did and far worse.....:-d:-d:-d

I made a torture test with my g-shock model G-8000. froze it for one week at -18 degrees celsius. after that I boiled it for about twenty minutes, I throw it out of a window from 15 meters height, I tight it to the right front wheel of my car and drove about 50km on the autobahn with about 160km/h, I drove OVER it with my car. I tight it to my bicyle and had it rubbed on asphalt for about 20 kilometers and guess what? it is still alive and haven't even got one single scratch on the crystal (!). the final test is still going to happen one day - a blast from my shotgun loaded with 2mm pellets at point blank range...:-d ;-)

regards, holger
 
#49 ·
Hmmm that makes me wonder how the FORMEX SHOCK ABSORPTION PATENTED SYSTEM compared to Incabloc or KIF???:think::think::think:

Hello Jacky,
The formex system is something completly different. Kif and Incablock only protect the balance from shocks, while the formex system, same as the IWC and Sinn with their modell 244ti used a secondary system to protect the whole movement in addition to kif and incabloc.
You will also see the Certina DS watches with the thick white rubber around the whole movement which in addition to incabloc gave secondary support and shock absorbance. Another system again is used by Kobold in his watches, but all automatic movements either have Incabloc, Kif or something similar, with the exception of Vulcain, using their patented exactomatic system, the best of all but protected by patents.
 
#51 ·
For what it's worth, I dropped my Spring Drive Marine Master from a height of about 5 feet onto a ceramic tile floor. The impact made a noise like that of a pebble hitting your windshield on the expressway at 60mph!

The tile was unharmed... The watch had a nice dent in the bezel but ran fine and was perfectly accurate throughout the experience and afterwards.



Regards,
Alphonse
 
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