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Raven Vintage or MKII Nassau?

12K views 34 replies 21 participants last post by  White Tuna 
#1 ·
Hi Team,

I cannot make my mind up on which to buy.

Let's hear the arguments for each.....
 
#11 ·
The MKII all day long ... in my opinion the Raven isn't even in the same league as the MKII
Well said, my friend. Go with the Nassau.
 
#3 ·
If you aim for a new watch, you can only go with raven since mkii (Bill Yao) at the moment suspended the order on nassau. If price is your concern, go for raven since it is cheaper. However, if you don't mind waiting, buying a 2nd hand watch, and really care for the finish as well as ETA movement, then nassau is your watch.
 
#6 ·
MkII's are selling used for more than they were offered new. If my Raven had a sapphire crystal, better gilt on the dial and wasn't running 20/sec day slow I would say it wins on value, but I would sell my Raven to finance a MkII if they weren't so hard to come by. Instead, I think I would prefer to buy the real deal over another Sub homage. Hopefully I can swing it one day soon.
 
#12 · (Edited)
The real ones are 15-20K or even more, very old, and most people still don't realize only 38mm. You could go for the next generation 5513 at 40mm and 3K without bracelet. Or you could get a fake 5510/5508 case and throw a 15XX movement in it and come in at about 2K with parts and labor. (just don't post it in this forum as it might break some rules)

OP:
RE the acrylic crystal of the Raven Vintage, they can be polished out pretty easily, and are authentic the original subs, from the 50's all the way through the 80's. The acrylic really changes the look of the watch, I think for the better. I've never owned an MKII but I'll take everyone's word for it that the fit and finish is better than the Raven. Raven is good for the price, but you just can't compare it to the typical 1K+ watch.

I would go by looks and how high end you want to go. These are about as different as homages of the same watch can get, and one is almost twice the price. Value wise I think they're both excellent.

9015: It's definitely noisier than the 2824 when the rotor free wheels, though not much. The rotor on the 2824 can be pretty noisy too, especially on a low charge. I read at least one watchmaker somewhere on the Internet say he feels the Miyota is better than the ETA, but I assume he was comparing it to the comparably priced base-burger ETA's. The high-grade (but expensive) versions can get really nice. More so than the Miyota, no doubt. Accuracy wise, it seems like there's a slight majority saying the Miyotas are really accurate and within COSC specs, but also many saying they're off by 15-20 seconds. My Raven Vintage is + 10 to +13. Can't complain about that. And you can always have a local watch maker adjust it for $30-40-ish.

Lastly, I appreciate AlphaWolf's advice and pictures, but as he acknowledges the pre-Benarus Raven and the Vintage are nothing alike. One is a frankensub (the best one I can think of) and the other is a Hong Kong micro with a proprietary case specifically designed for an acrylic crystal (this matters for water resistance). That's not a knock on the original Ravens either as I understand they're very nice watches.
 
#10 · (Edited)
As an owner of both (MKII Nassau and the old Raven 40); it's going to come down to a couple things.

Firstly, the MKII Nassau is one of the (if not THE) highest quality Submariner homages available. As well as one of the most faithful homages (aside from it's sister the Kingston) to the Rolex Submariner ref. 6538 James Bond; that exists. It's Swiss (or USA) made and has a multi-position adjusted (by Bill Yao, founder and owner of MKII) highly decorated ETA 2836-2 automatic movement. If this is important to you, then you have your answer.




As for the Raven 40; it follows the same style of design, but it has a gilt dial and uses C3 lume; whereas the Nassau has white printing and uses BGW9 lume. Those are probably the two largest differences right off the bat. The Raven 40 has a domed acrylic crystal, which is more prone to scratching, but looks more vintage; and the Nassau has a domed sapphire crystal, which is virtually scratch-proof, but doesn't have the same effect of distortion to the dial. Some people like this, others (such as myself) could care less about acrylic vs. sapphire and which one looks better. They both look good and serve good purposes in their own ways.

The newer Raven 40 uses a Miyota 9015 automatic movement; which, if you don't mind the differences between it and the ETA of the Nassau, then there's really no reason you should prefer one over the other, unless you prefer Swiss ETA over Japan Miyota etc. But from experience I can tell you that my Nassau is only off by a couple of secs a day at its worse. I do not know how the Miyota 9015 performs.

I own the old Raven Vintage 40 model, which was Swiss made and powered by an ETA 2836-2 just like the Nassau. However, the old Raven 40 is a Rolex Submariner 5512 homage as opposed to the 6538 James Bond Submariner styling of the new Raven and the MKII Nassau.

If you wanted one of these, you'd have to go to the sales forum instead of buying new from Raven like the current model. It depends on what you prefer.

 
#14 · (Edited)
I think you need to decide what you really want before comparing the watches. Both offer different watches at different price points to match.

If what is really important is the look, size, and feel of a 6538 and you have the extra money to spend then the MKII is the watch you might want to consider.

If a more modern updated version of the 6538 with the Vintage look of a domed acrylic crystal with a steroid influenced 40mm case and very good Miyota engine that is more affordable (almost half the price) then the Raven is a very nice option.

I think it comes down to price and how important the details of a strict homage to the 6538 (mkii) versus a more stylized and modern interpretation (Raven). Both are nicely crafted with the nod going to the MKII which is also more expensive and should be a bit nicer in the components (sapphire and ETA movement) which is reflected in the price.

I think they are both appropriately priced for what they each offer.
 
#17 ·
Both great but I hope you've got a truck load of patience if you go in the MKII direction. I reckon a lot of the attraction of the MKIIs generally is MR Yao's genius at translating insanely long delivery times into exclusivity & desirability. It's human nature to want what you can't get.............
 
#22 ·
or if you like the Omega 300 homages...(to stir it up) - however like the Raven (price better - 40mm no date opt.)

Watch Analog watch Watch accessory Fashion accessory Jewellery


or this (borrowed pic, better than mine)

Analog watch Watch Watch accessory Fashion accessory Jewellery
 
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#28 · (Edited)
The Raven is so nice already that I would have a hard time justifying the added expense and aggravation grabbing a MKII adds to this proposition. It's like diminishing returns, I would prefer to put the funds and time into another watch than into upgrading from a Raven to a Nassau.

I own a Raven Deep that is just spectacular for the price, so maybe I am a bit biased...
 
#30 ·
The Kingston is a great looking watch, but its still a homage, as the Raven. If I could get it new I would consider it, but I am getting a Raven Vintage no-date soon and with the money I save, something else. I really don't care about the ETA movement.
 
#31 · (Edited)
For me, it is the details... The gold hands and the gold tone text on the Kingston just pops. Also, I prefer the MKII bezel insert... Like you, though, I've been leaning toward either not buying another watch at all (very sensible!) or picking up a 40 or 42 mm Raven. Actually, I am also VERY tempted by OWC 5517 - really wish that the new model with the date had the date at three o'clock rather than four, though...
 
#32 ·
The OWC looks very nice, but as a Bond fan, I prefer a 6538 homage. Don't get me wrong, based on pictures and the opinion of various forum members, I understand that the Kingston is a better (and more expensive) watch... But I know I'll be happy with the Raven Vintage.
 
#34 ·
I own a MKII Kingston and a Raven Vintage. I think there have been excellent points made here. The only thing I would add is that I greatly prefer the Raven Vintage bracelet over the MKII Kingston Bracelet. I would love a similar bracelet for the MKII but am now using a Hadley Roma with MKII endlinks.
 
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