Vintage Omega Dive Watch Values Artificially Inflated?

Thread: Vintage Omega Dive Watch Values Artificially Inflated?

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  1. #1
    Member Malyel's Avatar
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    Confused Vintage Omega Dive Watch Values Artificially Inflated?

    An article in today's (10/8) Wall Street Journal brings up questions about the legitimacy of recent increases in resale values of vintage Omega watches. The article points out how Omega bought 47 items during the recent Omegmania Antiquorum auction. They also bid on 80 out of the 300 lots. After reading the article I am left with a negative view of Omega and wonder how artificially inflated vintage Omega prices are. Am I wrong to think this?

    Here is a link to the article.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1191...hpp_us_pageone

  2. #2
    Member Guido Muldoon's Avatar
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    Re: Vintage Omega Dive Watch Values Artificially Inflated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Malyel View Post
    An article in today's (10/8) Wall Street Journal brings up questions about the legitimacy of recent increases in resale values of vintage Omega watches. The article points out how Omega bought 47 items during the recent Omegmania Antiquorum auction. They also bid on 80 out of the 300 lots. After reading the article I am left with a negative view of Omega and wonder how artificially inflated vintage Omega prices are. Am I wrong to think this?

    Here is a link to the article.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1191...hpp_us_pageone
    Well, I've always figured anything was worth whatever somebody (idiot?) was willing to pay for it and not a penny more or a penny less. After all, if something (PloProf say) is worth $8,000 but you can't find a buyer then it ain't worth $8K is it. And if 50 yard line first row SuperBowl tickets behind your team's bench were given to you there's no telling what they might be worth (That is, what some insane person will give for them.)

    As for the Omegas, I'm not buying so from my perspective they have no value. But if anyone is looking to sell that PloProf they have I might be willing to value it at $2500, $3K tops.

    With regard to the article referenced with your link, I'm assuming it's all perfectly legal but it leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.
    Last edited by Guido Muldoon; October 9th, 2007 at 00:44. Reason: typo
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  3. #3
    Member UltraMagnetic's Avatar
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    Re: Vintage Omega Dive Watch Values Artificially Inflated?

    NO.....you are NOT wrong!

    YOU ARE RIGHT.

    here's the deal from my angle, it might be shared with some of our other, more knowledgeable members.

    I have been collecting vintage steel omega divers for years, and I own many of the landmark pieces (not as many as some of you). But enough to see what is going on.

    OMEGAMANIA was really great, and REALLY bad at the same time.

    Yes, many of these pieces went to OMEGA for their museum, but at the same time YES they were inflating prices like crazy.

    I dont think ANY of us have seen these prices, I mean they were crazy. Now, when you have this many CLEAN and/or NOS pieces at the same time, you are going to draw HUGE attention and HUGE interest which equals HUGE prices, thats a given.

    But you cant really fault them, the watches have been slowly gaining value, they want as many clean originals as they can get for their museums/P.R., etc. Just adds to the current marketing programs for their current model lines.

    PLOPROF aside, I collect a lot of quartz and tuning fork rarities (as do many of us). These prices were also pretty um.......RICH, if you know what I mean.

    its not just their dive watches is what I'm saying. Some of the Marine Chronometer prices were STAGGERING, triple or quadruple "street" prices.....sometime MORE. and then you have the 20% buyers premium.

    Omega simply told their guys: GET the watches, money is no object. Obviously they have a few dollars over there! They priced the collectors OUT OF THE GAME

    We watched this auction closely (my bro and I ) and bid on many.

    We got BLOWN out, like I'm sure many here did as well.

    My real problem is that actual LOYAL collectors couldnt reach as high as BIENNE.

    Thats my real issue, but like anything else, if you get in early, you get in early.

    Cant be mad at the lady who sells a picasso for $50M when she paid $1M.

    You can be mad at yourself for not buying said Picasso early (or earlier)

    Its the same thing in the Art world or (!jesus is lord!) the muscle car game where a barracuda fetched $2M recently.

    Really boys, its called MARKETING.....beyond that its called AUCTION HOUSES.............

    total scam in my opinion. But thats cause none of us own Picassos......right? right.

    I am SURE that Omega is closely watching our friend Mitch and his knock-off PROPLOF (which i am on the waiting list to buy cause like you, I am not spending $10K on one), and I wouldnt be suprised if they are in the works for a modern-day version.......ya dig?

    but to be fair, BEFORE Omegamania, the PROPLOF (and others) were steadily climbing. Cant fault these guys for taking advantage of a trend, and making it work for their company can you?

    we would all do the same!


    after running my mouth ----I am now off to actually READ this article.......but nice quality post again!

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  5. #4
    Member esantelli's Avatar
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    Re: Vintage Omega Dive Watch Values Artificially Inflated?

    Omegamegalomania:

    Does this really surprise anyone , this company continues to prove itself to have no conscience, from the multiple BS lawsuits : Eddie Platts Broadarrow, UTS etc etc.
    This type of ploy has been the linch pin of many of these single seller auctions, lead initially by Patek. This is an interesting read!
    While I do not live in the rarified air of major auctions it is disturbing, just another example of lack of full disclosure, a little whink and a nod, the so called smoke filled room attitude so pervasive in our society.
    eds


  6. #5
    Member UltraMagnetic's Avatar
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    Re: Vintage Omega Dive Watch Values Artificially Inflated?

    Amen brother! Interesting indeed that our little hobby is attracting this type of behavior. watch them re-release the PROPLOF, and go after Mitch.

    the world today.....



    Quote Originally Posted by esantelli View Post
    Omegamegalomania:

    Does this really surprise anyone , this company continues to prove itself to have no conscience, from the multiple BS lawsuits : Eddie Platts Broadarrow, UTS etc etc.
    This type of ploy has been the linch pin of many of these single seller auctions, lead initially by Patek. This is an interesting read!
    While I do not live in the rarified air of major auctions it is disturbing, just another example of lack of full disclosure, a little whink and a nod, the so called smoke filled room attitude so pervasive in our society.
    eds

  7. #6
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    Re: Vintage Omega Dive Watch Values Artificially Inflated?

    Anyone who meets the registration requirements is entitled to bid, and anonymity has always been the privilege of both buyer and seller if they want it. I'm as bummed as the next man when I lose an eBay auction-but that's the way it goes. Complaining that Omega bid on their own watches is like complaining that you went up against Bill Gates or Warren Buffet and lost. There is nothing egalitarian about an auction. The most money, and the willingness to spend it, always wins out.

    The arguement that auction prices drive retail prices is spurious at best. Most non-WIS have no idea who Antiquorum are, and what Omegamania was. In the wider world there is precious little PR value in it for Omega. And what about the 220/300 lots that Omega did not bid on? Are those winning bidders equally responsible? The whole thing is a non-story that sounds too much like sour grapes to me.
    Last edited by lordsinclair; October 9th, 2007 at 03:15.
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  8. #7
    Member esantelli's Avatar
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    Re: Vintage Omega Dive Watch Values Artificially Inflated?

    While I agree that the one with the most money wins, I disagree that this has nothing to do with retail sales and pricing, in fact there has been tremendous "coverage" of this Omegamania within the watch collecting community and the fact that this story is in the WSJ indicates there is some more wide spread interest. Omega has been touting the fact the "assembly line" watches are garnering huge numbers, we all know how these auctions work, there is definitely a herd mentality that tends to drive prices up, anyone who has ever been to one knows that emotions can take over especially when the bidding hits record numbers.
    I have no problem losing an ebay auction has you suggest to a higher bidder, I do object if the bidding is being driven up by the seller himself, if you read the article Omega was intimately involved in this auction by authenticating and rehabing the items for sale.
    eds


  9. #8
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    Re: Vintage Omega Dive Watch Values Artificially Inflated?

    Don`t forget folks that the article mentions a lot more brands,as well as Omega . Patek Phillipe , Girard Perregaux etc . .....this has been going on for years,and it happens in many industries ....happens with Vintage Automobiles and Vintage Wines .

    Why should a Rolex Double-Red Sea Dweller cost so much .....compared to an Omega PloProf or SM1000m ? Marketing .....

    I don`t like what it has done to the prices of many Vintage watches from numerous brands,and certainly wish that I still had some of the pieces that I owned 10yrs ago,but this is the way the big companies work.

    Does make you wonder though

    Cheers,
    Vic

  10. #9
    Member SonnyD's Avatar
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    Re: Vintage Omega Dive Watch Values Artificially Inflated?

    Quote Originally Posted by lordsinclair View Post
    Anyone who meets the registration requirements is entitled to bid, and anonymity has always been the privilege of both buyer and seller if they want it. I'm as bummed as the next man when I lose an eBay auction-but that's the way it goes. Complaining that Omega bid on their own watches is like complaining that you went up against Bill Gates or Warren Buffet and lost. There is nothing egalitarian about an auction. The most money, and the willingness to spend it, always wins out.

    The arguement that auction prices drive retail prices is spurious at best. Most non-WIS have no idea who Antiquorum are, and what Omegamania was. In the wider world there is precious little PR value in it for Omega. And what about the 220/300 lots that Omega did not bid on? Are those winning bidders equally responsible? The whole thing is a non-story that sounds too much like sour grapes to me.
    I agree with you 100%. I don't see it any different then Price fixing as some makers do,......to low production figures to artificially inflate prices. If they want them for their museum, so be it. It happens in every market. I think Omega prices are below value anyway as compared to some others makers. Everytime the prices go up, it helps those of us that have some of the older models. If the prices were truly inflated and not driven by demand, they won't hold anyway IMO.
    Harley Davidson's were demanding very high prices several years ago, but the same models can be bought now for 3-4-5000 less now. Everyone bought them thinking they were going to make a killing in a few years when they sold them, now with interest waning, and people having money tied up in them, the prices are falling like dominoes. Inflated prices, and over valued items, don't hold it forever. Never pay more for something then it's actually worth, and you will probably never loose much money with your purchase.
    Regards Sonny
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    Re: Vintage Omega Dive Watch Values Artificially Inflated?

    While the story also leaves a sour taste in my mouth, you have to ask yourself: is Omega interested in its buyers? Or is it interested in making money?

    (Did anyone actually think it was the former?)

    Compare it to the stock market. Companies often bid on their own stock (there are many legitimate business reasons why they do so, and there are also stock-price and corporate-compensation-related reasons too).

    Perhaps the difference is that any serious investor KNOWS that when he/she buys, say, IBM stock, that there's a good possibility that IBM is also buying the stock for its own reserves and thus competing and driving the price up.

    Here, Omega presented and marketed the auction as something for Omega fans, and the problem is many watch buyers believed them. EVen though that wasn't the case (clearly). As with IBM, Omega probably bid on items as much for business reasons as to drive the price up and drive up cache, etc.

    We'd like to think that watch companies just want a reasonable profit but care about the average watch buyer. But they're not, and why should they? For every WIS who will be a repeat buyer are many highly compensated executives who will buy one or two really expensive pieces and never buy a watch again. So it's in their interest to drive the price as high as possible for the highest possible profit.

    Just my opinion.

    - Kent

    Quote Originally Posted by Malyel View Post
    An article in today's (10/8) Wall Street Journal brings up questions about the legitimacy of recent increases in resale values of vintage Omega watches. The article points out how Omega bought 47 items during the recent Omegmania Antiquorum auction. They also bid on 80 out of the 300 lots. After reading the article I am left with a negative view of Omega and wonder how artificially inflated vintage Omega prices are. Am I wrong to think this?

    Here is a link to the article.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1191...hpp_us_pageone

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