Panerai losing touch?
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    Member busch12's Avatar
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    Panerai losing touch?

    I think Panerai needs a refresh. My AD, stopped carrying them because of poor sales. It's a pretty decent sized AD. Seems like I see less and less of them around here. They're competing with a price point above what they offer.

    I absolutely love the 47mm 1950 models. A 372 is my grail, but I can't pull the trigger on one because of the poor bang for buck. Steel, no date, hand canker, leather strap, and a pretty plain movement for almost $10k. C'mon man. Your fit and finishing is no better than a Tudor, but you're asking 3 times the cost.

    I think some sandwich Rads priced around Tudor and some luminor 1950 models in the 4-6k range would help to jumpstart the brand again.

    Yeah the carbotech models and crazy limited editions are cool, but is that enough to sustain a brand on? Maybe I'm off base here and they're doing fine, but I think they're targeting the wrong crowd. Rolex, Tudor, and Omega seem to be killing it, I'd hate to see one of my favorite brands fall behind.


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    Haf
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    Re: Panerai losing touch?

    Quote Originally Posted by busch12 View Post
    I absolutely love the 47mm 1950 models. A 372 is my grail, but I can't pull the trigger on one because of the poor bang for buck. Steel, no date, hand canker, leather strap, and a pretty plain movement for almost $10k. C'mon man. Your fit and finishing is no better than a Tudor, but you're asking 3 times the cost.
    That's why I bought my 422 used, hopefully it will maintain some sort of value down the road if I ever decide to sell it.

    Carbotech are definitely cool, but cool in a way that I would never consider actually wearing one and I doubt there's a mass appeal for them since most watches sold at vast pricing levels are still made from plain steel.

  3. #3
    Member espresso&watches's Avatar
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    Re: Panerai losing touch?

    Quote Originally Posted by busch12 View Post
    I think Panerai needs a refresh. My AD, stopped carrying them because of poor sales. It's a pretty decent sized AD. Seems like I see less and less of them around here. They're competing with a price point above what they offer.

    I absolutely love the 47mm 1950 models. A 372 is my grail, but I can't pull the trigger on one because of the poor bang for buck. Steel, no date, hand canker, leather strap, and a pretty plain movement for almost $10k. C'mon man. Your fit and finishing is no better than a Tudor, but you're asking 3 times the cost.

    I think some sandwich Rads priced around Tudor and some luminor 1950 models in the 4-6k range would help to jumpstart the brand again.

    Yeah the carbotech models and crazy limited editions are cool, but is that enough to sustain a brand on? Maybe I'm off base here and they're doing fine, but I think they're targeting the wrong crowd. Rolex, Tudor, and Omega seem to be killing it, I'd hate to see one of my favorite brands fall behind.


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    Where I live, I see more Panerai's out and about than any other "luxury" watch. As to the price vs. value conundrum, I think it really depends on the model. I picked up a 796 last year, and can't think of any other watch that offers that much bang for the buck - in-house movement, 8 day power reserve, free sprung balance, and power reserve indicator for just shy of $7k retail (and I negotiated nearly 20% off). Others, like the 372 you mention, are pretty steep for what they are.

    I think another aspect of this is the shift to a preference for smaller watches. If you spend any time reading comments on Hodinkee (and I don't recommend you do), anything over 40mm seems to be regarded as almost vulgar. Personally I have no problem wearing a 44mm PAM, but watches that size are certainly not the current "fashion".
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    Re: Panerai losing touch?

    It really feels like _new_ Panerai models are loosing touch, while classic models like 112 are still loved.
    I noticed that not many people are willing to sell 112/176 models and just keeping and enjoying them.
    Price wise, I'm also quite reluctant to buy Panerai for 10k+, I'd rather buy Rolex at these levels (if I'm lucky to get one at retail, haha). At 5k range Panerai is a great watch, with lots of character and history.

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    MOV
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    Re: Panerai losing touch?

    Panerai is doing very well in my marketplace, but their boutique does take business away from other dealers.

    You can buy a PAM 372 in mint condition with box and papers for $6600 from a stellar broker in my market.


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    Its absolutely crazy to compare Panerai to Tudor???? Their models are higher end than any Rolex let alone Tudor. You think a SS rolle is worth the price but not PAMs? Panerai has also created amazing HH pieces and can do and deliver any type of watch so they are certainly avant guarde in their use of new materials vs rolex or AP or anyone actually.
    Its the same for any luxury item, their is no value in the equation. You think a SS 2 or 3 hander PP is worth 50K? 75K? And more? We are not talking grand complications, we r talking base compilations but guess what, thats the price for that name and design. So yes, Panerai are worth the price as much as any other luxury watch. If its not worth it to you then simply dont buy but they are doing quiet well as a company and Im glad with some of the new pieces and just choosing which comes next, we’ll see what all the rest of this years release will look like but I cant wait.
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    Re: Panerai losing touch?

    I’ve been wearing Panerai since 2006 but my newest Panerai came out in 2013...while I think they’re still interesting and different; I don’t like any of their newer releases...
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    Re: Panerai losing touch?

    Quote Originally Posted by espresso&watches View Post
    I think another aspect of this is the shift to a preference for smaller watches. If you spend any time reading comments on Hodinkee (and I don't recommend you do), anything over 40mm seems to be regarded as almost vulgar. Personally I have no problem wearing a 44mm PAM, but watches that size are certainly not the current "fashion".
    I think this has been much overplayed, and smaller sizes much less reflects any actual changing watch size preferences than it does the realities of the average wrist size in Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Shenzhen, Hong Kong, and Singapore...
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    Member espresso&watches's Avatar
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    Re: Panerai losing touch?

    Quote Originally Posted by mpalmer View Post
    I think this has been much overplayed, and smaller sizes much less reflects any actual changing watch size preferences than it does the realities of the average wrist size in Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Shenzhen, Hong Kong, and Singapore...
    I disagree. When I first got into watches in the early 2000's, big watches were on trend. IWC Big Pilots, Panerais, etc. very much in fashion. The last 5-10 years or so has seen a shift in the other direction, and I think the surge in interest in vintage watches has played a large role in that. Are watch manufactures making smaller watches (the Due line?) to cater for an Asian market? Maybe. But that doesn't change the fact that markets like the US and Australia are also tending to favour smaller pieces.

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    Member busch12's Avatar
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    Re: Panerai losing touch?

    Quote Originally Posted by m630 View Post
    Its absolutely crazy to compare Panerai to Tudor???? Their models are higher end than any Rolex let alone Tudor. You think a SS rolle is worth the price but not PAMs? Panerai has also created amazing HH pieces and can do and deliver any type of watch so they are certainly avant guarde in their use of new materials vs rolex or AP or anyone actually.
    Its the same for any luxury item, their is no value in the equation. You think a SS 2 or 3 hander PP is worth 50K? 75K? And more? We are not talking grand complications, we r talking base compilations but guess what, thats the price for that name and design. So yes, Panerai are worth the price as much as any other luxury watch. If its not worth it to you then simply dont buy but they are doing quiet well as a company and Im glad with some of the new pieces and just choosing which comes next, we’ll see what all the rest of this years release will look like but I cant wait.
    I seem to have touched a nerve.

    I'm not trying to bash on Panerai. I love Panerai. One of my top 3 favorite brands. Yes they do some really cool ultra high end models. But taking a Loup to my PAM005 vs my tudor and the Panerai certainly wasn't any better. Twist the bezel of a Pelagos vs a Submersible and tell me the PAM has better action.

    I'm not saying as value in general, there is no good value in luxury watch making, but compared to the market as a whole. What do they offer over the likes of Omega and Tudor in Panerai's lower end range?




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