Forged Carbon and maybe a little bit of bronze.
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  1. #1
    Member workaholic_ro's Avatar
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    Forged Carbon and maybe a little bit of bronze.

    Hi everybody!

    My name is Fidel Chirtes and I am this guy:

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    Some members remember me, not because I am who I am, but because I am the creator of that thing from my wrist (Boschett WUS DWP, thank you Jim, if it wasn't you it would never happened, thank you Keith for bringing it to life).
    Obviously some don't. Don't remember me, I mean, or simply never heard about my existence. Some of them never heard about DWP either, or simply hate it. Now, speaking about DWP, since I started to work on it, or even a little before, I was planning to start my own micro-brand, but being busy and involved in many other projects (car body parts, composites, various machines) I never had the time to do it. I still don't, but at least I made the great decision. Long story short: new company, a name, some tests, contacts established and here I am. I invite you to participate to my journey, my work and my fight. Feel free to come with suggestions, critiques and to share your impression even it is not favourable. I didn't come here for ovations, I came to hear honest opinions from the largest watch community. Questions are also welcome. Let's GO! (BTW, I mentioned something about a name, will be revealed soon.)

    Day one, step one: base material, forged carbon. I know, not very original but so is steel and they are still using steel to make watches.
    I made it, I have it, still working a little on the "ingredients", but the recipe is almost done.Here is the proof:

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    The structure of a forged carbon block on microscope. I added a sharp pencil tip and the smallest screwdriver I have to show the magnifying ratio.
    The picture was taken here, in a man's cave. Carbon block - bottom left :

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    For those who are familiar to carbon fiber composite parts, you know how it sounds when you knock it. Like plastic.
    Now listen to this, I love it. It sounds like ceramic piece. This is what compression does:



    Thank you for your patience and more to come. Cheers, Fidel.
    Last edited by workaholic_ro; 3 Weeks Ago at 19:05.
    Renee Descartes walks into a bar, the bartender says 'sir can I get you a Martini ?', Descartes says 'I don't think...' and he disappears

    Cheers,
    Fidel
    (DWP #001/100)

  2. #2
    Member workaholic_ro's Avatar
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    Re: Forged Carbon and maybe a little bit of bronze.

    Day 2, step 2: THE movement.

    Although they are far to be as accurate as quartz watches, I am a fan of mechanical. No need to explain, most of you know the feeling of a mechanical watch on the wrist.
    There are a few options from ETA, Sellita or the newest series from Miyota, the 9000 family. Seiko is for Seiko watches only (IMHO), Technotime is too expensive, Soprod is made of "unobtainium".
    From all the above my list is very short: 2824-2, 2836-2, 2892-A2.
    For the start I bought a lot of these, not many but enough to start a small edition:

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    No worries, they are not clones :

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    Last edited by workaholic_ro; 3 Weeks Ago at 03:44.
    Renee Descartes walks into a bar, the bartender says 'sir can I get you a Martini ?', Descartes says 'I don't think...' and he disappears

    Cheers,
    Fidel
    (DWP #001/100)

  3. #3
    Member workaholic_ro's Avatar
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    Re: Forged Carbon and maybe a little bit of bronze.

    I didn't finish the design yet so I'm posting a pic from my cave:

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    ...and another one:

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    brandon\ likes this.
    Renee Descartes walks into a bar, the bartender says 'sir can I get you a Martini ?', Descartes says 'I don't think...' and he disappears

    Cheers,
    Fidel
    (DWP #001/100)

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  5. #4
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    Re: Forged Carbon and maybe a little bit of bronze.

    Nice cave you have there :) It would be good if you could show us the design of your project. So far I could not understand how will the watch look like eventually.

  6. #5
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    Re: Forged Carbon and maybe a little bit of bronze.

    How is this 'Forged' ?
    What is the process?

    Dave
    Learning Patience one dropped part at a time.

    On twitter: @SolutionsByDave

  7. #6
    Member workaholic_ro's Avatar
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    Re: Forged Carbon and maybe a little bit of bronze.

    Quote Originally Posted by utzelu View Post
    Nice cave you have there :) It would be good if you could show us the design of your project. So far I could not understand how will the watch look like eventually.
    Thank you. I still have a few details to refine, but I promise it soon.
    Renee Descartes walks into a bar, the bartender says 'sir can I get you a Martini ?', Descartes says 'I don't think...' and he disappears

    Cheers,
    Fidel
    (DWP #001/100)

  8. #7
    Member supawabb's Avatar
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    Re: Forged Carbon and maybe a little bit of bronze.

    Hello Fidel, what you have posted so far is mighty nice. I look forward to seeing more as this progresses.

  9. #8
    Member workaholic_ro's Avatar
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    Re: Forged Carbon and maybe a little bit of bronze.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave S View Post
    How is this 'Forged' ?
    What is the process?

    Dave
    Actually because the Italians decided to call it this way. If you are familiar to metal fabrication methods and take the term from there ad-litteram, you should rather call it compressed, not forged. But using the term compressed sounds confusing, you can compress a fluid (usually a gas) but how can one compress a solid which is well known as practically incompressible. Now the story (I'll try to be brief):
    The spring of inspiration seems to be Boeing and goes way back in the early eighties. Lamborghini hired a consultant who was working for Boeing and started to play with composites. I mean "real" composites, carbon fiber and advanced resins. (composites in automotive are even older, the first attempts are from the fifties, but using inferior resins as polyester combined with glass fibers - BTW contrary to the popular belief glass fibers are not inferior but that is another story). In the beginning there were woven fibers and resin, later prepregs and when the market and the technical and design needs increased "carbonio forgiato" was born. Which translated into English is "forged carbon". Now, the material (carbon fiber) being the same, what is the main difference between woven and "forged" ? The fibers are not anymore continuous and regular, arranged in an orderly pattern, but cut and erratically dispersed. From a technical perspective it gives a better behavior of the structure, a uniform resistance in all directions, unlike the pattern arrangements which have always preferred directions depending on the orientation of the fibers. Besides, the woven composites are made at pressures going up to 8 bar in the "classic" way, infusion or prepreg and up to 20 bar for modern and faster methods (LRM, RTM, VARTM); "forged" is made at 300 bar which gives a much better carbon/resin ratio and a more compact structure. The designers side is also enriched, improved, the fibers have a "natural" look. The watch industry which is in a permanent search of new materials, processes and mechanisms (ceramics, meteorites, fossilized fragments, petrified dinosaur poop, roller chains, liquid pistons, magnets just to mention a few) borrowed this too from the automotive industry and applied it to watches. The question is: do we need them all? Definitely not, but we love them :)
    As far as I know the very first was Audemars Piguet Royal Oak Offshore Carbon in 2007, followed Cvstos, Richard Mille, Linde Werdellin as big names and also a list of little guys on which I am trying to subscribe.
    As for the part two "What is the process", basically a mix of carbon fiber and a binder are compressed in a metal or ceramic mold (pressed and not injected this is the "forged" part). The temperature is an option depending on the nature of the binder which can be a thermoset or a thermoplastic resin. Additional chemicals and powders can be also involved, to change the colour or light efects, to improve the scratch resistance, but nobody will tell you how much or what. More details as my project moves forward. Details on any matter above - feel free to ask. I may not know everything but I'll do my best.

    Not the best presentation IMHO but it may bring some light:
    https://admin.www.lamborghini.com/si...ntation_EN.pdf
    ...and if you can read Italian (or google translate may do it for you) this is approximatively a part of what I've said above:
    http://www.orologioblog.net/46/perche-carbonio-forgiato

    ERRATA: just noticed that in the pdf indicated above they mentioned a pressure of 80 bar. From other sources I've heard about 300, I made my tests above 500 (possible for small parts, hard to achieve for car parts), doesn't matter exactly how much and I have no idea how much is enough, fact is that it is A LOT of pressure.
    Last edited by workaholic_ro; 2 Weeks Ago at 01:02.
    Renee Descartes walks into a bar, the bartender says 'sir can I get you a Martini ?', Descartes says 'I don't think...' and he disappears

    Cheers,
    Fidel
    (DWP #001/100)

  10. #9
    Member workaholic_ro's Avatar
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    Re: Forged Carbon and maybe a little bit of bronze.

    Quote Originally Posted by supawabb View Post
    Hello Fidel, what you have posted so far is mighty nice. I look forward to seeing more as this progresses.
    Will try not to disappoint, thanks !
    Renee Descartes walks into a bar, the bartender says 'sir can I get you a Martini ?', Descartes says 'I don't think...' and he disappears

    Cheers,
    Fidel
    (DWP #001/100)

  11. #10
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    Thanks for the explanation. So it sounds similar to random chopped strand matting with high pressure resin infusion in a metallic mold process.
    I have some experience in composites, but the forged name is not something I have come across with a none “marketing” explanation...

    Dave
    Learning Patience one dropped part at a time.

    On twitter: @SolutionsByDave

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