Two Designs... Which should I try to work on?
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  1. #1
    Member Karriope's Avatar
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    Two Designs... Which should I try to work on?

    Seeing as the original thread I made is about a different watch concept and I have two newer ones that I want to focus on, guess it was time to make a new thread.

    Backstory's the same... since delving further into the despairity of WISdom, I started to try making watch designs and shared them with some friends, so I naturally got the suggestion that I could try getting my own made.

    This time around, I have two designs that I think I would want to try to work on for production and possible launch; a more classical "nautical inspired" desk-diver, a boating watch, perhaps, and an aggressive, chunky tool watch more in line with my anti-minimalist aesthetic.
    Since I have two very different styles of watch here, I'm thinking which I might want to dedicate resources towards making a prototype. Which would you think? Both are currently specified with the premium series Miyotas, but I'd also consider making them with Swiss movements if viable.


    First, the classic style desk-diver. My intent with this was to get an older looking design with some vintage-esque inspiration in a vintage size and thinner profile. I'd intend surfaces to be a mixture of brushing and polished. Lume is minimal for a more classic look, but on a version with a silver/white dial like this the BGW9 on the dial would be 'hidden'. A full-lume dial or lume on the indices is also possible. I'd also consider making this with a sterile dial (no logo). Ignore the plain stock image for the movement, I'd intend a custom rotor at the very least, if additional decoration is hard to get.

    Case diameter: 37.5mm
    Case lug to lug: 45mm
    Case width including crown: ~39.5mm
    Case thickness including caseback: ~10.5mm
    Overall thickness including box sapphire protrusion: 10.6mm
    Case material: 316L, fine brushed finish, polished bezel edge
    Caseback: Exhibition
    Target water resistance: 150m (15 ATM / 500ft)
    Dial: Ice silver with luminous chapter dots, polished metal applique stick indices (double-stick 12-3-6-9), sloped blue rehaut with luminous numerals
    Bezel: unidirectional 120 click, coarse circular brushed steel with engraved timer markings and 60/0 BGW9 Luminova stripe
    Lume: C3 Luminova (chapter dots), BGW9 Luminova (hidden cardinal lume)
    Crystal: Box sapphire
    Movement: Miyota 9039 (28,800vph, hackable, no date)
    Hands: Arrow hour & pointed stick minute, spearhead seconds, polished finish, Luminova C3
    Strap: Dark blue leather with light blue contrast stitch / black leather with blue contrast stitch / rubber

    Dial variant: Black brushed with polished applique indices, luminous, sloped red rehaut with luminous numerals




    Second up is the more outlandish one, which features a blocky, chunky case design and lots of lume. The half-second hashes are supposed to be luminous too but I forgot to apply the property to those.
    I also got feedback that the crown is too small, so I may upsize that. I'm also considering ways to add in a 6'o'clock date that doesn't interfere with the layout too much, as the location of a date wheel isn't something I'd be able to change.
    I'm also considering redesigning it into a variant that uses an internal bezel rotated by an outer bezel, ala IWC SafeDive or the Ball Engineer Master II Diver (Pro), more of the latter. I'm not sure how easy that would be to manufacture, but it would certainly bring in something different. Another strong consideration is that I might try to get this made in a left-hand drive layout (aka Destro).

    Case diameter: 40.2mm
    Case lug to lug: 48.45mm
    Case width including crown: ~42.3mm
    Overall target thickness: ~11.8mm
    Case material: 316L, sandblasted & brushed
    Caseback: Exhibition
    Target water resistance: 300m (30ATM, 1,000ft)
    Dial 1: Pure black / black sunburst / micropattern (haven't decided, basically), deep blue tiered rehaut with luminous hashes and numerals
    Dial 2: Dark blue with micropattern, blue rehaut with luminous hashes and numerals
    Dial 3: silver with aquablack rehaut
    Indices: applique metal with luminous segments, sandblasted finish
    Bezel: unidirectional 120 click, sandblasted steel, luminous insert with sapphire glass, different edging from 0-20
    Lume: C3 Luminova / BGW9 mix / White Line on crown & seconds counterbalance
    Crystal: Double domed, ~1.5mm thick
    Movement: Miyota 9039 (28,800vph, hackable, no date)
    Hands: Sandblasted finish, BGW9 seconds/hours, C3 minutes
    Strap: rubber / sandblasted finish bracelet with brushed bevels




    I'm looking for wider feedback on both designs and to decide which I'd like to attempt prototyping first, so hit me!
    Last edited by Karriope; November 7th, 2018 at 21:39.
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  2. #2
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    Re: Two Designs... Which should I try to work on?

    I really liked the first one...very clean and pleasing to the eye. The second design was too busy for me. Of course, reading your description, my aesthetic probably leans the opposite of yours. So, to try and take your perspective, would it be possible to make number 1 more aggressive or to simplify No.2 somewhat? For the second design, the shape of the number markers was distracting along with the counterbalance logo on the second hand. Very cool project, good luck!

  3. #3
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    Re: Two Designs... Which should I try to work on?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimFava View Post
    I really liked the first one...very clean and pleasing to the eye. The second design was too busy for me. Of course, reading your description, my aesthetic probably leans the opposite of yours. So, to try and take your perspective, would it be possible to make number 1 more aggressive or to simplify No.2 somewhat? For the second design, the shape of the number markers was distracting along with the counterbalance logo on the second hand. Very cool project, good luck!
    Thanks for your feedback!

    It's likely you are more interested in a vintage style piece, and I thought making a design like this in an actual vintage size (37.5mm) could possibly appeal to such enthusiasts, or maybe female enthusiasts who would not want a 40mm+ watch.
    I don't know if there'd be a way to cleanly make it more "aggressive" without wreaking havoc on the intended aesthetic. Perhaps changing the bezel to an insert rather than fully engraved steel, or making the bezel fully luminous as on an alternate black edition I rendered could work.


    For the second, simplicity was not the name of the game, and my personal aesthetic is typically the anti-thesis of minimalist (many of my previous designs were very heavily loaded with lume or detailing). Its intended size at 40.2mm also makes it larger, though I'm wondering how viable it would be to produce it at 38~39mm. That said, I think a chunky and aggressive design like that would be better at a larger/midsize.
    I forgot to mention that I was also considering designing a version that uses an internal rotating bezel actuated by an outer ring, like the Ball Diver Pro. Perhaps that might make for a less busy look, but I'm not sure how viable for manufacture that would be.
    Could you clarify what you mean by "number markers"? The primary indices? Or the numerals on the rehaut?
    The counterbalance logo on the second hand is also present on the first design, but in a much smaller size. I'm not sure what size would be actually viable to produce. On the second design, it is much larger, but in reality is just 2.5mm across and .2mm on each spoke. I'm wondering if it'd be possible to manufacture it still at 1.5mm wide with .1mm spokes.
    Last edited by Karriope; November 7th, 2018 at 21:41.

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    MWW P. Marcidus | SNGLRTY OHI-4 | GallioTempo Trident | COA Studios Eclipse
    Steinhart Ocean Titanium 500 (A10) | Spinnaker Bradner
    Ball Engineer Master II Diver TMT (P1J) | Tudor Pelagos LHD | Tudor Black Bay Fifty Eight

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    Re: Two Designs... Which should I try to work on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karriope View Post
    Thanks for your feedback!

    It's likely you are more interested in a vintage style piece, and I thought making a design like this in an actual vintage size (37.5mm) could possibly appeal to such enthusiasts, or maybe female enthusiasts who would not want a 40mm+ watch.
    I don't know if there'd be a way to cleanly make it more "aggressive" without wreaking havoc on the intended aesthetic. Perhaps changing the bezel to an insert rather than fully engraved steel, or making the bezel fully luminous as on an alternate black edition I rendered could work.


    For the second, simplicity was not the name of the game, and my personal aesthetic is typically the anti-thesis of minimalist (many of my previous designs were very heavily loaded with lume or detailing). Its intended size at 40.2mm also makes it larger, though I'm wondering how viable it would be to produce it at 38~39mm. That said, I think a chunky and aggressive design like that would be better at a larger/midsize.
    I forgot to mention that I was also considering designing a version that uses an internal rotating bezel actuated by an outer ring, like the Ball Diver Pro. Perhaps that might make for a less busy look, but I'm not sure how viable for manufacture that would be.
    Could you clarify what you mean by "number markers"? The primary indices? Or the numerals on the rehaut?
    The counterbalance logo on the second hand is also present on the first design, but in a much smaller size. I'm not sure what size would be actually viable to produce. On the second design, it is much larger, but in reality is just 2.5mm across and .2mm on each spoke. I'm wondering if it'd be possible to manufacture it still at 1.5mm wide with .1mm spokes.
    I think you are right about the 1st design. I'm not sure how you would make it more "aggressive." What would you think of using alpha hands? I would de-lume the counterbalance logo on the second hand. Sorry about the "number markers," lol. I meant the indices. But, looking again I think maybe its the triangular shape inside (pointing to the number) that seems too much to me. Perhaps removing the triangular shape on the dial and the number it points to, leaving only the lines that radiate out on the dial. The indices also mimic your logo, yes? I would take if off the counterbalance of the second hand because you are already incorporating the logo in the indices OR make it a lot smaller like the first rendering with no lume and the same color as the rest of the second hand so it does not stand out. I just think that it is distracting to see that spin. As far as size goes, I have wrists on the smaller side, so I wear 38 to 42mm, with 40 being my sweet spot. I know most folks wear bigger, especially divers. The second design would be fine for me, size wise. I wouldn't mind it if the first design was a little bigger...perhaps 39. In my initial comment, I as commenting on the totality of the designs as I felt it all "worked" together. However, if I were purchasing, I might lean toward the second design if there was a little less going on. Anyway, who knows? It's always difficult to comment on someone else's vision because it's yours not mine. I hope you get input from other folks on the board who can be more articulate about what they see. I hope you get one made! This stuff inspires me. It takes a lot of passion for the amount of work involved.

  6. #5
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    Re: Two Designs... Which should I try to work on?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimFava View Post
    I think you are right about the 1st design. I'm not sure how you would make it more "aggressive." What would you think of using alpha hands? I would de-lume the counterbalance logo on the second hand. Sorry about the "number markers," lol. I meant the indices. But, looking again I think maybe its the triangular shape inside (pointing to the number) that seems too much to me. Perhaps removing the triangular shape on the dial and the number it points to, leaving only the lines that radiate out on the dial. The indices also mimic your logo, yes? I would take if off the counterbalance of the second hand because you are already incorporating the logo in the indices OR make it a lot smaller like the first rendering with no lume and the same color as the rest of the second hand so it does not stand out. I just think that it is distracting to see that spin. As far as size goes, I have wrists on the smaller side, so I wear 38 to 42mm, with 40 being my sweet spot. I know most folks wear bigger, especially divers. The second design would be fine for me, size wise. I wouldn't mind it if the first design was a little bigger...perhaps 39. In my initial comment, I as commenting on the totality of the designs as I felt it all "worked" together. However, if I were purchasing, I might lean toward the second design if there was a little less going on. Anyway, who knows? It's always difficult to comment on someone else's vision because it's yours not mine. I hope you get input from other folks on the board who can be more articulate about what they see. I hope you get one made! This stuff inspires me. It takes a lot of passion for the amount of work involved.
    Thanks for elaborating. I had a very distinct idea in mind for the first one, so I would not be especially keen to change it up a lot unless the design is outright unpopular. If I want to ride the apparently ongoing vintage wave, I thought it might work for that.


    For the indices on the second design, I originally designed that shape to incorporate a date window at 6'o'clock for an older design, but did not use them in the end. The date would have gone into the hexagon portion and all indices would have outline-style lume save for 12 having solid. I'm still not sure they work all around rather than on cardinals only.
    I'm actually strongly considering removing the numerals and the white lines from the main dial to clean up a bit, but the dial felt strangely empty without them.

    For the seconds counterbalance symbol, I'm quite certain its not a detail I want to remove - it's inspired, but from where it comes from it's a detail I really like. Maybe taking the lume off might make it less distracting, another option could be to have a nonluminous tip so only the counterbalance glows for the seconds, which would be a bit like how some Seikos have a lume tail instead, which still qualifies for a "running in the dark underwater indication".
    As you suggest, maybe it should be smaller - but for now I'll have to find out what would be the size it can actually be manufactured in!


    For size, I'm also wondering how viable it is to offer either design in multiple sizes. As far as I know, for the wider world, 40mm is in, but 39mm and below is seeing a strong comeback. The first design I feel would be best to retain a classic size of 37.5mm, but I'm sure that it can be sized up to 40 reasonably and perhaps fit a date at 3/6 in place of the indices comfortably if that were to be done. The second probably would look kind of comical if it were too small.

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    Re: Two Designs... Which should I try to work on?

    Both meritable efforts! Will be fascinated to see where you go with them!

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    Re: Two Designs... Which should I try to work on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karriope View Post
    Thanks for elaborating. I had a very distinct idea in mind for the first one, so I would not be especially keen to change it up a lot unless the design is outright unpopular. If I want to ride the apparently ongoing vintage wave, I thought it might work for that.


    For the indices on the second design, I originally designed that shape to incorporate a date window at 6'o'clock for an older design, but did not use them in the end. The date would have gone into the hexagon portion and all indices would have outline-style lume save for 12 having solid. I'm still not sure they work all around rather than on cardinals only.
    I'm actually strongly considering removing the numerals and the white lines from the main dial to clean up a bit, but the dial felt strangely empty without them.

    For the seconds counterbalance symbol, I'm quite certain its not a detail I want to remove - it's inspired, but from where it comes from it's a detail I really like. Maybe taking the lume off might make it less distracting, another option could be to have a nonluminous tip so only the counterbalance glows for the seconds, which would be a bit like how some Seikos have a lume tail instead, which still qualifies for a "running in the dark underwater indication".
    As you suggest, maybe it should be smaller - but for now I'll have to find out what would be the size it can actually be manufactured in!


    For size, I'm also wondering how viable it is to offer either design in multiple sizes. As far as I know, for the wider world, 40mm is in, but 39mm and below is seeing a strong comeback. The first design I feel would be best to retain a classic size of 37.5mm, but I'm sure that it can be sized up to 40 reasonably and perhaps fit a date at 3/6 in place of the indices comfortably if that were to be done. The second probably would look kind of comical if it were too small.
    I think leaving the lume on the counterbalance of the second hand is a great idea if you are removing it from the end of the second hand. Accentuates your logo without having two lights spinning. Just wondering if you tried the white lines on the dial without the numerals and the triangle shape between the numerals and the indices? Was it still too empty?

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    Re: Two Designs... Which should I try to work on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karriope View Post
    Thanks for elaborating. I had a very distinct idea in mind for the first one, so I would not be especially keen to change it up a lot unless the design is outright unpopular. If I want to ride the apparently ongoing vintage wave, I thought it might work for that.


    For the indices on the second design, I originally designed that shape to incorporate a date window at 6'o'clock for an older design, but did not use them in the end. The date would have gone into the hexagon portion and all indices would have outline-style lume save for 12 having solid. I'm still not sure they work all around rather than on cardinals only.
    I'm actually strongly considering removing the numerals and the white lines from the main dial to clean up a bit, but the dial felt strangely empty without them.

    For the seconds counterbalance symbol, I'm quite certain its not a detail I want to remove - it's inspired, but from where it comes from it's a detail I really like. Maybe taking the lume off might make it less distracting, another option could be to have a nonluminous tip so only the counterbalance glows for the seconds, which would be a bit like how some Seikos have a lume tail instead, which still qualifies for a "running in the dark underwater indication".
    As you suggest, maybe it should be smaller - but for now I'll have to find out what would be the size it can actually be manufactured in!


    For size, I'm also wondering how viable it is to offer either design in multiple sizes. As far as I know, for the wider world, 40mm is in, but 39mm and below is seeing a strong comeback. The first design I feel would be best to retain a classic size of 37.5mm, but I'm sure that it can be sized up to 40 reasonably and perhaps fit a date at 3/6 in place of the indices comfortably if that were to be done. The second probably would look kind of comical if it were too small.
    I think leaving the lume on the counterbalance of the second hand is a great idea if you are removing it from the end of the second hand. Accentuates your logo without having two lights spinning. Just wondering if you tried the white lines on the dial without the numerals and the triangle shape between the numerals and the indices? Was it still too empty?

  10. #9
    Member Karriope's Avatar
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    Re: Two Designs... Which should I try to work on?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimFava View Post
    I think leaving the lume on the counterbalance of the second hand is a great idea if you are removing it from the end of the second hand. Accentuates your logo without having two lights spinning. Just wondering if you tried the white lines on the dial without the numerals and the triangle shape between the numerals and the indices? Was it still too empty?
    I haven't tried simplifying the dial in that manner. I think I would prefer to keep the triangular point of the indices however.
    For the numerals, I can see how it looks without those but the white lines. Another thing I'm wondering is whether I ought to use 12 hour or 24 hour numerals.

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    Re: Two Designs... Which should I try to work on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karriope View Post
    I haven't tried simplifying the dial in that manner. I think I would prefer to keep the triangular point of the indices however.
    For the numerals, I can see how it looks without those but the white lines. Another thing I'm wondering is whether I ought to use 12 hour or 24 hour numerals.
    What about leaving the triangular shape at the 3, 6, and 9... the way you have it lumed?

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