Assmann and Madresch German Gruen sources?

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  1. #1
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    Assmann and Madresch German Gruen sources?

    I know Assmann was an early high Q maker for Gruen. I can find nothing about the Gruen Madresch marked pocket watches. These seem to be better quality and uncommon compared to the Swiss Gruens. Is Madresch a place? Just a name? German? etc.
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    Member fmattes's Avatar
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    Re: Assmann and Madresch German Gruen sources?

    Assmann was founded 1852 in Glashütte and produced high quality pocket watches like Lange and Union. Frederick Gruen, the son of Dietrich Gruen, who founded Gruen Watch Company attended the watchmakers school in Glashütte and after he had finished it, he worked for Assmann. From 1893 up to 1897 assmann then delivered watch movements for Gruen. The Gruen movements which were produced in Glashütte were mostly signed "D. Gruen & Son(s)". Gruen then wanted smaller movements which Assman couldn´t deliver so the switched to Swiss Movements. The Siwss movements were signed "DG&S" and later "Gruen"
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  3. #3
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    Re: Assmann and Madresch German Gruen sources?

    Appreciate concise history of the early Gruen. Notice Madresch marked Gruens after 1900 to 1930. Biel was Gruen Swiss factory. Is Madresch not German?

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  5. #4
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    Re: Assmann and Madresch German Gruen sources?

    Madretsch is in Switzerland near Biel, earlier it was spelled Madresch.
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    Re: Assmann and Madresch German Gruen sources?

    Madretsch is on the map. Explains why web was useless with old spelling. The Gruen movements are different design when marked Madresch. So not
    only a production or finishing facility for nearby Biel Gruen plant. Dietrich Gruen marked watches were the highest Gruen quality brand. So am not sure if Madresch marking had anything to do with quality grade. Seems like it might since examples I have seen are finest of Gruens. Now know I am in wrong forum and German Assmann probably not at Madresch. Both examples are 18K with Madresch marked near balance. Added photos of the purchased one justified by fmattes info.
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    Last edited by artb; January 23rd, 2010 at 15:40. Reason: add

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    Re: Assmann and Madresch German Gruen sources?

    I bought the old Pentagon. The Gruen repeater is not marked Madresch. The supposed marking is obscured except for ch near balance. NAWCC Bulletin 10 of 1974 has Assmann producing the Gruen 18 and 16 sizes 1895 to 1904. In 1904 the Verithin 12 size originated. Gruen had Leo Asby in Madresh make a few of the first ones. Repeater maker not known. This old Pentagon case has 1922 patent date and movement is much earlier but is original with it. It took until 1955 to sell the last 50th Anniversary 1924 built movements. Gruen had various unrecorded German and Swiss makers doing specials and augmenting production, always with emphasis on high quality.

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    Re: Assmann and Madresch German Gruen sources?

    Notice quite a few lookers at this posting. So added a couple photos. When in vintage forum no one told me Madresch spelled wrong and not in Germany. So this got me searching successfully and I bought a fine collectible.

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    Re: Assmann and Madresch German Gruen sources?

    Name:  IMG_0049axcopy.jpg
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Size:  242.2 KBSince I wrote this I made Gruen a retirement project. The Madretsch Gruen shown here is apparently a prototype for the 1924 50th Anniversary (Only one so far known) and have accumulated a seriously extensive collection of 50 different Gruen pocket watches. Many shown in the Vintage category. Presently no response to info request about a rare small 17 ligne size 21j ~1900 Assmann. Proves Assmann made a small size and Gruen added name marking to it but I believe was not made for Gruen as the fine 18 and 16 sizes were 1894 to 1902. It does not have the Gruen specified poised pallet escapement that is in the 18s and 16s sizes. I believe it should be considered an Assmann watch resold by Gruen. At that time there were many fine movements cased and resold by Gruen through their authorized dealers. So did I get a rare Assmann not a contracted Assmann for Gruen? Have seen one other also marked with retail jeweler name on dial and movement.
    Last edited by artb; June 3rd, 2012 at 14:35.

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    Re: Assmann and Madresch German Gruen sources?

    I don't know about Gruen, but I rotated your photo so I can see
    that you are talking about Gruen. If you want people to follow
    the story it may help to make it easy for them.

    "D. Gr__n & Söhne" "Dresden", but the important part is obscured by the balance wheel.
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    How is "D. Gr__n & Söhne" related to Gruen? Some of that
    is told --> there. What about the movements and cases?
    As that article tells us, "Die Gehäuse wurden aus Zoll-und
    Steuergründen in den USA gefertigt." So, we do not expect
    to see the movements and cases originating in the same place.

    Thanks,
    rationaltime
    Last edited by rationaltime; June 3rd, 2012 at 19:35.

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    Re: Assmann and Madresch German Gruen sources?

    Name:  P1000290a.jpg
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Size:  591.1 KBYour references are the best I have seen about Gruen/Assman movements. D. Gruen & Sohne was for earliest Gruen company name until 1898. Dresden was the Gruen address for Assmann source location. An example in your reference of the 17L size is 67219, marked Gruen and sons. Mine is 67281 marked D. Gruen & Sohne thus typically inconsistent as usual for Gruen, but it seems from your references that __the 17L size was supplied as a contracted movement to Gruen and not as an Assmann for resale._ Most Assmann Gruens are gold cased by Gruens case factory after 1898. I have a 19L (~16 size) with serial 66166 in gold case gift dated 1902. So perhaps 67k numbers seem to be not exactly consecutive. Many Assmann Gruens I have seen are only 62k through 67k. I believe you have answered my question.
    THANK YOU. To anyone: Although written in German the references are very interesting. My real grade A old Assmann ~18s and Assmann Gruen 1902 ~16s.


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    Last edited by artb; June 4th, 2012 at 04:36.

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