Neat video on Citizen caliber 0100: +/- 1 second per year
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  1. #1
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    Neat video on Citizen caliber 0100: +/- 1 second per year

    I just found this video on Youtube and thought it was nicely done to explain Citizen's new 0100 caliber, which is accurate to +/- 1 second per year. Quite an achievement.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iigxOiIvFGY

  2. #2
    Member clarencek's Avatar
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    Re: Neat video on Citizen caliber 0100: +/- 1 second per year

    I can’t wait for this tech to be < $2000
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  3. #3
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    Re: Neat video on Citizen caliber 0100: +/- 1 second per year

    I am very impressed
    Most watch-manufacturers try to brain-wash me with stuff about horses or what watch Churchill wore. They invest in the perceived value of the brand-name rather than the quality of the product.
    Citizen list some expensive procedures which make me think that they have engineered the watch to meet 1spy with a high degree of confidence -
    > pre-aging of xtal & selection of best-performance examples
    > individual measurement of temperature characteristic
    I also like the achievement of precise hand-alignment (emphasised by a simple dial without date-window).
    Wempe Quartz Marine Chronometer, Longines VHP, GO Senator Excellence

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  5. #4
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    Re: Neat video on Citizen caliber 0100: +/- 1 second per year

    Except for the doubling of the TC table, I did not see anything that was not already known.
    watchcrank likes this.

  6. #5
    Member dicioccio's Avatar
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    Re: Neat video on Citizen caliber 0100: +/- 1 second per year

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveM View Post
    I am very impressed
    Most watch-manufacturers try to brain-wash me with stuff about horses or what watch Churchill wore. They invest in the perceived value of the brand-name rather than the quality of the product.
    Citizen list some expensive procedures which make me think that they have engineered the watch to meet 1spy with a high degree of confidence -
    > pre-aging of xtal & selection of best-performance examples
    > individual measurement of temperature characteristic
    I also like the achievement of precise hand-alignment (emphasised by a simple dial without date-window).
    to be honest, these practices are already done by seiko and citizen itself and for models already for sale in the last 20 years

    for the 0100, citizen did a good job but is also marketing it with "already seen" stuff

    of course all of this doesn't diminish the effort by citizen but the true "secrets" of the caliber 0100 are yet to be truly unveiled
    Last edited by dicioccio; 4 Weeks Ago at 15:08.
    ronalddheld and watchcrank like this.

  7. #6
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    Re: Neat video on Citizen caliber 0100: +/- 1 second per year

    Quote Originally Posted by ronalddheld View Post
    Except for the doubling of the TC table, I did not see anything that was not already known.
    What struck me was the statements :-
    a) Every oscillator behaves differently (because of temperature change)
    b) Citizen was already unique in temperature-testing every oscillator

    My reading of threads on the Longines VHP was that a significant proportion of the production did not meet 5 seconds per year 'off the wrist'.
    This would suggest a weakness in the thermal-correction, probably becuase a 'median' correction-curve is used, rather than measuring the actual curve for each watch.
    To temperature-cycle each watch, measure the variation in rate and then use the measured rate to generate a custom compensation-curve must be expensive (either in initial test-cell (capital) cost or per-unit cost (testing time) ).

    I wonder if they double the TC table by doubling the number of test-points, or just by doing more interpolation.
    Wempe Quartz Marine Chronometer, Longines VHP, GO Senator Excellence

  8. #7
    Member Eeeb's Avatar
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    Re: Neat video on Citizen caliber 0100: +/- 1 second per year

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveM View Post
    ...

    I wonder if they double the TC table by doubling the number of test-points, or just by doing more interpolation.
    Assuming the compensations needed on the crystal are fairly linear over the desired temperature range, you need two things to make TC more accurate: more significant digits in calibration (by doing longer calibrations) and finer increments of adjustment. This will give you a more accurate inhibition count for each individual crystal.

    If the crystal is not linear over the desired temperature range, then you need a table of inhibition counts. But on-the-wrist temperature ranges are actually pretty small. And most accuracy claims seem to be based on wearing the watch every day for most of the day.

    If the crystals are sufficiently uniform, you don't even have to do individual calibrations. But traditionally volume production of crystals show sufficient variation between individuals that you need individual testing if you want super high accuracy.

    And, of course, you need to allow newly made crystals to age to 'iron out' their internal stresses. As I remember our data, it seems age is not a factor even at high accuracy after a year or two.

    It's not magic.

    I confess I haven't spent much time on WUS so honestly don't know. Are people finding these new movements are actually meeting the specified +/- 1 spy?
    Tom-HK and DaveM like this.
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    ...that's just my opinion and I've been wrong before and will be again and might be now!

  9. #8
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    Re: Neat video on Citizen caliber 0100: +/- 1 second per year

    Quote Originally Posted by clarencek View Post
    I can’t wait for this tech to be < $2000
    Don't hold your breath. Obviously, we don't know, but I use the Eco Drive One as an indicator...similar custom tech, high end, limited market. 6000 for the initial LE, only dropped to about 2600 or so with the latest models. (Which can sometimes be found for < 2000.) But the black dial 0100 LE is 20% higher. Worse, there's nothing about that model that suggests there will be a big price drop, other than perhaps a less expensive bracelet.
    And it is also said, "go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say no and yes."
    -- Frodo, to Gildor

  10. #9
    Member Hans Moleman's Avatar
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    Re: Neat video on Citizen caliber 0100: +/- 1 second per year

    Quote Originally Posted by Eeeb View Post
    As I remember our data, it seems age is not a factor even at high accuracy after a year or two.
    Loki posted a long term accuracy graph about his Chronomaster.

    The aging disappears so easily inside other temperature noises, but he put some extra effort in to avoid that.

    BTW Good to see you back!

    What was that Eagles song again?

  11. #10
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    Re: Neat video on Citizen caliber 0100: +/- 1 second per year

    You can look at my summaries back over 10 years.

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