Unofficially, I think I have a couple of HAQ Watches
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  1. #1
    Member SynMike's Avatar
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    Unofficially, I think I have a couple of HAQ Watches

    So according to this article...
    https://www.watchtime.com/featured/h...rand-seiko-9f/

    (which I see some experts here on this subforum do not like) this Bulova that I own is a HAQ. Is that correct?
    I think it has lost 3 seconds in about 4-5 months. My real question is about the next watch after this one.




    Okay, so then I have this one. It is within 1/2 second three months after I set it last. At that time I think it had lost 2 or 3 seconds over 6-7 months. Seems like HAQ to me. Are there official regulations or standards that define the meaning of HAQ, perhaps governing what (at least Swiss, or maybe Japanese) watch companies can call HAQ? Or is it just an ideal or target that is generally known? If this Omega is not an HAQ, then it just happens to be a very accurate watch. But I'm interested to hear what the experts here have to say about it. Thanks, Mike.


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    Re: Unofficially, I think I have a couple of HAQ Watches

    COSC for quartz is ±0.07 seconds per day which is ± 25.6 seconds per year.

    The best production HAQ are specced at 5 seconds per year.

    Some people say 10 seconds per year is HAQ, but for me COSC or better is fine.

    As far as I know, Omega never put a thermocompensated quartz movement in an Aqua Terra.
    Sometimes you just get lucky, depending on the temperature you store the watch at and how stable the crystal is.

    Yours looks like a 2517.50.00, which has the Omega 1538 movement. This is apparently an ETA 255.461, which is not thermocompensated.
    Last edited by hughesyn; April 25th, 2018 at 10:58.

  3. #3
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    Re: Unofficially, I think I have a couple of HAQ Watches

    In the current era <10 s/y although we discuss watches with greater deviations. Really need TC for a HAQ, although some higher frequency watches can achieve HAQ specs.

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    Re: Unofficially, I think I have a couple of HAQ Watches

    Baker's article has numerous flaws and omissions.

    The Bulova is, as noted in that article, not HAQ; it's got good accuracy but it's closer to 5 SPM.

    When we mean HAQ, we speak about an accuracy assertion to which, if desired, the manufacturer can be held. There is no fixed definition, by any means...heck, the term itself is colloquial. The standard we've used here is, as Baker noted, historically 10 SPY. However, as hughesyn noted, the COSC quartz chronometer standard, which a layman will take as "highly accurate quartz" is 25 SPY. And we've also talked about the high-freq Bulovas, which don't quite manage that. (Oh, and the COSC requirement includes TC, and IIRC we don't think Bulova includes it.)

    So, most of us aren't too pedantic about it. At least until the Citizen 0100 movement hits. Then we'll see. :)


    But hey, you've got some nicely behaved pieces, so enjoy them. I'd not be surprised that the Omega would behave very well, as long as it stays within temps.
    The truth is rarely pure and never simple.

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    Re: Unofficially, I think I have a couple of HAQ Watches

    Thanks for all the replies. I learned a lot.

    I generally wear the Omega 1-2 days/week. Otherwise it sits in my drawer. This pattern seems to keep it spot on.
    The Bulova gets worn less, maybe 1-2 days/month.
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    Re: Unofficially, I think I have a couple of HAQ Watches

    I'm not sure where these various bloggers are getting their accuracy specs from for Bulova. Bulova seems to be pretty vague on these numbers, and bloggers are all over the place on the specs. The one thing that I have seen over the last three or so years on these forums is that most if not all have performed much better 1 min/yr, typical performance is closer to COSC.

    As far as what qualifies as HAQ, it seems there are two options, move what the acceptable cut off based on the current technology, and eliminate what was once considered HAQ, 10 s/yr wipes out a lot of players, or once it is admitted into the HAQ club like say that old Rolex, it remains.

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    Re: Unofficially, I think I have a couple of HAQ Watches



    Have this^^^ Lobster as well and it is pretty much dead nuts accurate, but lacking TC = temperature compensation, all Bulova are not technically HAQ even tho many are accurate enough.

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    Re: Unofficially, I think I have a couple of HAQ Watches

    I thought TC is simply any method employed correct for temperature change. Documentation says that Bulova addresses temp in the circuitry (Lombardi, Arnstein). That sounds like TC to me.

    Temp correction can also be achieved via the crystal cut, and possibly by frequency. I'm not sure how much TC is considered adequate in a non COSC certified watch, in COSC it's 0.2 s/day at +/-15C, not sure what Longines, Bulova, Citizen, and Seiko allow for.

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    Re: Unofficially, I think I have a couple of HAQ Watches

    Picking a specific crystal cut sounds more like thermal insensitivity.
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    Re: Unofficially, I think I have a couple of HAQ Watches

    Quote Originally Posted by ronalddheld View Post
    Picking a specific crystal cut sounds more like thermal insensitivity.
    Good point. So a crystal cut that is precise and inherently more stable across the specified COSC temperature range that doesn't require compensation to meet specs, would be a superior product. Clearly any process that doesn't require intervention, adjustment, or compensation to produce accurate results is preferred.

    Since COSC is a European thing if eta produces a thermally insensitive movement that doesn't require TC, would COSC certify it, and would the HAQ forum recognise it.

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