What exactly is considered HAQ?
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    What exactly is considered HAQ?

    Is there a certain point for a watch to be considered HAQ? I was thinking on this because I have a Citizen Eco-Drive Skyhawk A-T with a U600 movement that keeps time consistently well within 0.5 SPY. That is without radio reception, since in my country there's no available transmitter. Does this qualify as HAQ? Thanks!

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    Re: What exactly is considered HAQ?

    HAQ technically must have a temperature compensating circuit to be considered true HAQ.
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    Re: What exactly is considered HAQ?

    Quote Originally Posted by yankeexpress View Post
    HAQ technically must have a temperature compensating circuit to be considered true HAQ.
    Got it! Thanks a lot!

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    Re: What exactly is considered HAQ?

    That's a requirement that COSC imposes. It's *probably* essential because temperature variance will cause notable variance.

    COSC quartz chronometer is basically 2 seconds a month...25 SPY. With TC built in.

    We prefer tighter. We prefer 10 SPY, as a factory spec. Your Skyhawk won't have the TC, as it's anticipated to use the RF. But sometimes you get lucky.

    Also: no, there's no station in Peru, but...there IS one in Argentina, broadcasting at the same frequency as WWV. IF they use the same time code? Your watch may be picking it up.
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    Re: What exactly is considered HAQ?

    Quote Originally Posted by sergioag View Post
    Is there a certain point for a watch to be considered HAQ? I was thinking on this because I have a Citizen Eco-Drive Skyhawk A-T with a U600 movement that keeps time consistently well within 0.5 SPY. That is without radio reception, since in my country there's no available transmitter. Does this qualify as HAQ? Thanks!
    A watch is considered HAQ (actually "HPQ = high-precision quartz" would be a better name) if the applied technologies (MHz-range oscillator and/or digital temperature compensation circuit) permit it. That should be the proper definition here in this forum and elsewhere as well!
    Tell me about the applied technologies and I would know if the watch is HAQ! No other info is needed!
    HAQ has nothing to do with actual performance or factory specifications! Why? Because actual performance could be misleading as there are sweet spots/conditions even for non-HAQ watches when they can perform like HAQ watches and HAQ watches could be out of proper calibration-range (even out of the factory!) resulting non-HAQ level performance.
    A non-HAQ watch can show the accurate time today and it might be one second slow 48 hours later and 3 seconds slow another 48 hours later. That watch was accurate today but far from precise in its running.
    A HAQ that was reset yesterday can be 5 seconds fast today and gain an extra 10 seconds 48 hours later and gain an extra 10 seconds another 48 hours later and still would be considered very precise in its running but not accurate regarding to the actual time of the day.
    Factory specifications are carefully worded by the marketing departments and are not set by universal standards unless they simply refer to COSC.
    In this forum we admire high-precision (thanks to the applied technologies) and when this is matched with proper calibration then we are very happy...
    Last edited by ppaulusz; 1 Week Ago at 16:46. Reason: adding the term "digital" to temperature compensation
    Referring to the specifications without being aware of the applied technologies is the telltale sign of incompetence!

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    Re: What exactly is considered HAQ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ppaulusz View Post
    Tell me about the applied technologies and I would know if the watch is HAQ! No other info is needed!
    HAQ has nothing to do with actual performance or factory specifications! s)
    I disagree, this statement is a contradiction to the scientific method.
    Better than 10 spy is very demanding, to meet it requires both suitable 'applied technologies' and skilled implementation of those technologies.
    All of the correct technologies applied in a poor way can lead to an inaccurate watch !

    From an engineering point of view I would look for something like this :-
    - Better than 15 spy
    - over the temperature range of 10C to 30C
    - Performance maintained over 24 month period without re-calibration of rate ( ageing )
    - Accuracy without any external 'help' (ie radio or GPS)
    I do not believe that a 32Khz 'tuning fork' watch without temperature compensation can meet this spec.
    If one does it is interesting & deserves to be called HAQ .

    From a warranty point of view I would like to see something like this
    - During warranty period watch is within +/- 15s of correct time without adjustment for 1 year after set to the correct time
    - No get-out clauses.
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    Member ppaulusz's Avatar
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    Re: What exactly is considered HAQ?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveM View Post
    I disagree, this statement is a contradiction to the scientific method.
    Better than 10 spy is very demanding, to meet it requires both suitable 'applied technologies' and skilled implementation of those technologies.
    All of the correct technologies applied in a poor way can lead to an inaccurate watch !...
    It is called proper calibration and I have covered it!

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveM View Post
    ...From a warranty point of view I would like to see something like this
    - During warranty period watch is within +/- 15s of correct time without adjustment for 1 year after set to the correct time
    - No get-out clauses.
    The subject is not your wish-list but real life! "No get-out clauses"... Time to wake up!
    Referring to the specifications without being aware of the applied technologies is the telltale sign of incompetence!

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    Re: What exactly is considered HAQ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ppaulusz View Post
    ...MHz-range oscillator and/or digital temperature compensation circuit...
    Let me just clarify: I've just added the term digital to temperature compensation and edited accordingly my earlier post. Why? Because in the late 1970s there were analog temperature compensation methods like the famous one from Rolex in the OysterQuartz. That analog temperature compensation method never met the level/performance of later introduced digital temperature compensation methods. Strictly speaking, I would not consider the OysterQuartz HAQ these days. So under the term temperature compensation I really mean digital temperature compensation.
    Last edited by ppaulusz; 1 Week Ago at 17:02.
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    Referring to the specifications without being aware of the applied technologies is the telltale sign of incompetence!

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    Re: What exactly is considered HAQ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ppaulusz View Post
    A watch is considered HAQ (actually "HPQ = high-precision quartz" would be a better name)
    accuracy is a measure of how close a measurement is to a known standard, precision is a measure of how consistent those measurements are. I had a Sub years ago that ran +6spy, day-after-day, so it was very precise, but not very accurate. So technically, it could probably have been classified as HPM (high precision mechanical) if such a term actually existed.

    In the context of HAQ watches, given the narrow accuracy spec of ~10spy you're really going to have to be both accurate and precise anyway, so its kind of a moot point which term is used.
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    Re: What exactly is considered HAQ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dwalby View Post
    ...In the context of HAQ watches, given the narrow accuracy spec of ~10spy you're really going to have to be both accurate and precise anyway, so its kind of a moot point which term is used.
    What is the "narrow accuracy spec of ~10spy"?! A promise from the marketing department with plenty of get-out clauses! Would you buy one without being aware of the applied technologies?
    Referring to the specifications without being aware of the applied technologies is the telltale sign of incompetence!

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